Sawdustdad .If you remove your vr cover and push the contacts together on the post with the large windings it will turn over with the key off.
If they are fused together the same thing happens. It may need a quick filing to clean it up.

"Sounds like a starter relay stuck shut? There's a starter relay under the dash. I think it's called a magnetic switch in the parts diagrams. If it has welded itself shut, it will try to drive the starter regardless of the switch position. "


why is the pos. cable sparking really bad? (with smoke)

You have a short somewhere. Make sure you disconnect the battery cable before things get out of hand, then take a look with a VOM meter.

Read the thread "sudden meltdown." It may give you some insight.

what causes the contacts to fuse together. (sounds like something is not working properly?)

Usually dirty contacts causing too much resistance, and therefore too much heat buildup. Or too much current passing through the contacts (possibly due to a short).

started to read "sudden meltdown". looks like i am going to do some testing.
let you guys know what i find out tommorow night.

thanks.

this just happened out of no where, too.

Darkminion says the V/R also has contacts that energize the starter--I didn't realize the V/R was part of the ignition circuit, but I'm no expert. I still think, based on the things you did, it's not the V/R. Check the starter relay.

Relays fail for a variety of reasons, corrosion, fatigue, shorts.

oh, last question for tonight.

i put in a working v/r from the 108. it also clicks just like the 109 one. if putting in a known working v/r that now clicks, does that most likely say there is a short somewhere? or possibly the starter selenoid. (like said before)

but, why would the v/r click and not the starter relay click instead?

The click says that the VR is pulling in due to some reason. When you put the clicking VR on the "good" tractor does it work OK?