Only Cub Cadets - Cub Cadet 1650 engine trouble

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Have you tried pulling the choke when this happens to see if it comes back to life?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodge trucker (Post 429239)

NO!!! because "turning over" means ONLY that.... no more. Whether it fires, or attempts to start, or not.
you can remove the carb, remove the points condenser and coil completely from the tractor. Take the head off too. Then hit the key. With all those parts gone, it is guaranteed not to start or run but the engine will still spin. It is "turning over".
It drives me nuts when people think that "turning over" somehow means it fires up and tries to start and run.

THANK YOU! I was going to say that. :beerchug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by landscapebygd (Post 429211)

To answer J-Mech: When I start the tractor everything sounds great. I engage the throttle into the F position and use it without any problems for about 20 minutes or so. Then, without any other indication, the tractor starts to bog or choke down to the point of wanting to shut off. However, if I move the throttle lever back down to Neutral quickly I can "save" it from shutting down. As the engine "recovers" and picks back up I then try to move forward, I can some times play with it enough to get the tractor to run for a few more minutes (around 10 minutes but with intermittent success of the engine working but then bogging down)... basically enough time to get it back into the garage.

Ok, first, lets clear up some controls and terms. The throttle lever DOES NOT have an "F" or a "neutral" position. So, are you talking about the throttle? Or the hydrostat control lever??

Second, when it is dying, do you try pulling the choke out? If so, does it help? Make it worse? Do you pull it out a little, a lot? What??? What does "I play with it enough to get the tractor to run" mean? Play with the throttle? Choke? Get off and rub it's belly???

Quote:

Originally Posted by landscapebygd (Post 429211)

I took the fuel lines off, looked clear/clean and the carburetor bowl off and that was clean as well. I filed the points down very very gently as I was told to be careful not to take too much off. I replaced the spring return for the brake/clutch after it snapped off. I honestly thought this was the problem because the throttle and clutch/brake lever are connected. I also replaced the spark plug, condenser and air filter. Those are all new. Still experiencing the same problem thought.

If you filed the points, you need to set the timing. PERIOD. No matter what, you removed material, and that affects timing. You can't file the points without it affecting timing.

The return spring for the brake pedal IS NOT connected to the throttle in any way shape of form. It is related to the hydrostat control lever, but not connected to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by landscapebygd (Post 429211)

No recent engine work has been done. My close friend who has had the tractor for a few years said it never gave him this issue. HOWEVER, he did tell me it sat here and there as it was not his primary tractor.

I have not drained the fuel in the tank.. but I have gone through 2 tanks of gas since bringing the tractor home.

Ok, well it's good to know that prior to you getting it, it hasn't been worked on recently. We can rule out possible incorrect, or incorrectly installed parts. Hopefully your friend had used it enough to know that it didn't have these issues.

Just because you have ran two tanks of gas through it DOES NOT mean that the fuel tank is clean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by landscapebygd (Post 429211)

There are no nests restricting air flow. I'm not mechanic but would it be possible something is overheating? Why is it running without problems for as long as it does but then BOOM! Seems like something could be overheating.

I'm a mechanic....

Unless you have removed the engine completely from the frame and removed ALL the engine tins, there is no possible way you could know that there is nothing inside the shrouding on the motor.

Yes, it is possible something is overheating.... but it takes time to diagnose what. We need to rule out simple things first and go from there, that is why is suggested what I did in my initial response. No sense jumping straight to a sticking valve, scored piston, spun rod, ect, before first eliminating the easy common fixes. At this point in the game, I'm not convinced that the brakes aren't sticking and the motor only runs at 1800 RPM and it's just killing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by landscapebygd (Post 429211)

If the points were "off" wouldn't I be experience immediate problems once the engine turned over?

Short answer, NO. dodge trucker cleared up the terminology, but there are other reasons the answer is no. You need to check the timing.

When I say turning over I mean the engine starts, the tractor runs but after the allotted time, the engine begins experiencing this trouble. I've been at work all week and have not had any time to play with the tractor. I don't know what type of coil it has but will look at that as well as the gas cap... As I'm not too familiar with the tractor, I may post a few pictures for consulting purposes ...

Enjoy the day everyone !

Alex

I did play with the choke during one of the episodes.. I did notice a little bit of a difference but I couldn't get the tractor to continue, still had to bring the throttle back to Neutral. Could the choke have anything to do with something like this.

Did you read my post? There is NO NEUTRAL on the throttle!! What lever are you talking about? The hydro control lever has a neutral.... is that the "lever" you are talking about?

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: Interesting

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bsmith (Post 429205)

Could be a valve sticking when the engine gets hot.

Something to try that is very inexpensive to get a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil. Add a heavy dose to the gas and the oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by finsruskw (Post 429214)

I'd go with the MMO in the gas 1st off maybe 2oz/gal at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by landscapebygd (Post 429211)

... still need your guidance.

Alex

Maybe you missed the two posts above. That's my vote.

Guys, I apologize if I replied before reading any of the posts... It seems I have missed some and in my doing so neglected to clear up a few things.

It is not the throttle.. it is the hydro control lever.

When I "filed" the points, all I did was take a quarter and rub it very gently on the points to get rid of any corrosion... I took the advice of my neighbor who has worked on cars all his life ( in his mid 70's) and he said do it very gently as you don't want to take/file down the actual points. So again, I barely touched the points but if I do need to time the points/engine, how is this done? Do you guys have any videos or recommendations on how to learn this process?

After the machine runs for 20 minutes and the engine begins to choke or bog down to the point of stalling out, I noticed that when I return the hydro control lever from F to N this prevents it from stalling out completely, the engine then "recovers" in the N position and idles and idles normally I would say. However, when I adjust the hydro control lever to the F position and the tractor starts moving forward it begins to choke/bog down again and in turn I'm forced to bring the hydro control lever to Neutral. If I'm not near my garage, I'll have to let the tractor cool down for a bit before I can get it working again enough to return it to my garage.

I ordered the Marvel Mystery Oil and expect it in a couple days (probably Monday/Tuesday). I used Sea Foam in the second tank but haven't noticed a difference obviously.. is MMO similar or completely different?

The GAS cap. I'll check the cap again but I did not notice anything clogged. As one of you have mentioned, I may have to drain the tank and clean it completely. There is no fuel filter I can locate and from the research I've done so far I don't believe this tractor has one.

In regards to the Choke, I noticed on a few occasions that when the engine begins to bog down and I move the hydro control lever down toward the N position, I pulled the choke 1/2 way or sometimes all the way out and it has saved the engine from completely shutting off (but still have to bring the hydro control lever to N).

I'm off tomorrow and hope to look more into the tractor.

What is the best method of testing the ignition coil? if that is overheating? I'm not too savy with a multimeter so any help would be appreciated.

AGAIN, I apologize but I never saw some of your posts... Have a great weekend gents!

Alex

If you only stop the forward motion of the tractor and the engine recovers, it sounds like a fuel related issue. Do as suggested in about 10 of the posts and clean the fuel system and carb. Then adjust the carb and governor while you are at it.

You can find the information in the Kohler manual here:
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=4646

Time the ignition system like this:
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=33461

You can test the coil if you like, but I am pretty sure it's fine:
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11

Take the time and look through the tech section of the forum. Lots of manual, "how to's" and more in it:
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/f...f=19&order=asc

In the Tech section, at the top of the page, you will see another smaller section titled "Tech Tips". Check it out too.

Sounds like your mistaking the forward/reverse lever for the throttle cause the throttle has no neutral