Recap
 

I appreciate all the help so far. My goal is just to win a couple of trophies. I have never won a trophy or ribbon in my life and this is really important to me. The rules of my classes are as follows:

Garden Stock Altered (Bar and turf tires can be ground)
1. Single cylinder 14 HP engines and under.
2. 4000 RPM limit, regardless of flywheel type.
3. 1050 pounds weight limit.
4. All tractors must be stock in appearance. Officials must approve
alterations.
5. All engines must have OEM dimensions and specifications noted in
these rules.
6. Stock Block - can be sleeved—must maintain stock bore no more than
.030 over.
7. Stock head.
8. Stock crankshaft stroke must be maintained. Steel cranks allowed.
9. Stock valves required.
10. After market camshafts permitted. .330" max lift at zero lash.
11. Head gasket must be a composition gasket – no copper gaskets.
12. Stock carburetor required – venturi to be no more than 1.200" diameter.
13. Choke can be removed.
14. No intake standoffs allowed – 1 inch spacer maximum.
15. Exhaust for all tractors must discharge upwards or towards the rear of
the tractor - not out to the side, unless running stock muffler (discretion
of officials).
16. All clutch assemblies must be covered 180 degrees on topside. If you
have belts, they must have a safety shield.
17. 13" hitch height maximum.
18. 23x 10.50x 12 tire size maximum (Bar and Turf tires, can be ground ).
19. Pump gas only
20. Canister type coil.
21. 60" Wheelbase max..
22. Must have working kill switch with 2 inch ring.


LIGHT STOCK MODIFIED (Bar tires & Turf tires)
1. Single cylinder 12 HP engines and under.
2. 4000 RPM limit, regardless of flywheel type.
3. 1000 pounds weight limit.
4. All tractors must be stock in appearance. Officials must approve
alterations.
5. All engines must have OEM dimensions and specifications noted in
these rules.
6. Stock Block - can be sleeved—must maintain stock bore no more than
.030 over.
7. Stock head.
8. Stock crankshaft stroke must be maintained. Steel cranks allowed.
9. Stock valves required.
10. After market camshafts permitted. .330" max lift at zero lash.
11. Head gasket must be a composition gasket – no copper gaskets.
12. Stock carburetor required – venturi to be no more than 1.200" diameter.
13. Choke can be removed.
14. No intake standoffs allowed – 1 inch spacer maximum.
15. Exhaust for all tractors must discharge upwards or towards the rear of
the tractor - not out to the side, unless running stock muffler (discretion
of officials).
16. All clutch assemblies must be covered 180 degrees on topside. If you
have belts, they must have a safety shield.
17. 13" hitch height maximum.
18. 26x 12x 12 tire size maximum (Bar And Turf tires only).
19. Pump gas or racing gas allowed, no Alcohol nitro.
20. Canister type coil.
21. 60" Wheelbase max.
22. Dead Man throttle (return to idle automatic) recommended but not required.
23. Must have working kill switch with 2 inch ring.

Recap
 

I am running a Cub 124 that may have pulled before. I don't know what has been done to the engine but it is strong. The clutch is good and it has a red spring. What I have done so far:

Wheelie bars
Adjustable hitch
New #26 carburetor
Kill switch
Front weight bracket
100 lbs of suitcase weights
New Carlisle super lug tires (that is another story)
Vogel 12x10 aluminum rims
10" front tires
Added a switch to disable the generator
Bosch coil
Point saver ignition

Extra parts I bought before I figured out what I was doing and have not installed:
Fine splined rear axle and differential
Aluminum 6 pin 3 puck clutch and heavy duty drive shaft
Electric fuel pump

The competition is mostly running K301s with Bosch coils and Tru Power tires.

My question is, what do I need to do to win next season? Go ahead and install the fine splined differential? Add an over drive gear? Any suggestions are appreciated. I will rebuild the engine after next season.

With those rules a cam would be a big help. I would not worry much about gearing until you get your engine rebuilt and you get a feel for the tracks you are pulling on.

buy a steel crank, new rod and an oversize piston. balance the rotating assembly. if you can find the rare kohler governor weight assembly put that in. put the 30 lb flywheel on it and a heavy steel starter pulley, put a cam in it, mill the head till there's about .050 between the top of the valve and the head when the valve is open. playdoh or bubble gum works good for this. advance the ignition timing , deck off the top of the block till the piston is flush with the top. if an adjustable cam gear is allowed do that and advance the cam timing. a good valve job, dyno tune it to its optimum , dyno tuned exhaust pipe, a little fine tuning in the carb . should be a pretty stout motor. for a fuel pump I'd use the kohler mechanical pump,

you will then need the finespline rear. and a good clutch. put a 15-17 gearset in , lower pinion retainer, weld up your shift forks so they don't bend. run it at a few pulls and then if you need a faster gear then you can toss a OD in.

if you don't have a clue how to do this then just send it to someone who does with a blank check or a box of big box of cash . otherwise its just trial and error and allot of beating your head against a wall :bash2:

OK. I have no problem spending money. Just don't like wasting money. Steel crank? Why. I will not be running over 4000 rpm. Same for balancing. I am thinking deck the block, shave .04 off the heads, add a good cam, and I am good for 5 extra horsepower. That should be enough to get me where I want to go. If not, I'll add more next year.

What I would like to know is given the above mods and using 23" tires, what overdrive should I use? I am trying to shave a year off tuning and just come out next year ready to go. Without an answer, I would just go 10 percent. Any thoughts?

I will post pics of the last new Carlisle Super Lugs on the planet soon. After comparing them to my Destones, I can see why they are so popular.

Crank: Stronger (less likely to break), better suited to the load (of both the added stress, and rotating mass) longer life, more mass.

Balancing: Because when you go changing parts, adding stress, weight, aftermarket components, then the balance of the engine no longer exists. A balanced engine runs better, safer (less likely to fail) and runs more optimally. Imagine trying to run a marathon with a 5lb weight on one foot and a 10lb weight on the other....... kind of like that.

RPM=who cares how fast you want to run it. Under 4K, over 4K.... irrelevant.


Well, seems you have it all figured out. Don't need anyone's help here.

5hp...... I'm doubtful at under 4K.


Apparently you aren't paying attention. You can't "skip steps". No idea what gearing you need until you build a motor and try it on the track. This isn't a "one size fits all" kind of thing. You have to BUILD the tractor. Every one is different. Just like every track is different.


I'm kind of flabbergasted that you keep asking questions, but seem to question the advice. :bigthink: dvogtvpe basically told you how to build your motor. He's build lots and lots of them. Probably in your best interest to just build it like he says.

5 hp ? gotta stop smoking weed. cause's people to get odd ideas. you will pick up some torque but no hp. crank is for reliability. have 55 lbs of mass on each end of a crank and its days are numbered. balencing is a reliability factor to. you asked what you needed to win. I told you. a motor like that is really tough to beat. We have our own dyno. we know what does what when you change something.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation on the web. That is why I keep asking questions.

That is correct. You can take the info on this site to the bank. We aren't the best site for all things Cub Cadet for nothing! The guys on here know their stuff. :ThumbsUp:

there's one very popular web site for pulling. 90% of it is out dated or inaccurate. unfortunately when new pullers search that site comes up allot.

that was post #1000

What is the gear tooth difference between 23" tires and 26" to maintain the same ground speed?

3 in. of circumfrence is about 1 tooth is gearing. you really can't go by the tire size on the tire. you need to measure the tires with the correct air psi to find out what the actuall circumfrence is or as some call it roll out

Been thinking about your 15-17 gearset recommendation. Watched a few pulls on youtube. One in particular caught my eye. The guy was all over the place spinning tires. He about ran off the track a couple of times and really didn't get that far. After thinking about it, it seems his gearset was too high and a lower gear would give him more control and get him farther down the track. Am I correct in this assumption?

The traction of a tire spinning in dirt should be like a riverboat paddle wheel. A paddle wheel cavitates if you spin it too fast and actually results in a lower speed and less power. A tire should do the same thing in dirt. Or am I having a brain fart.

Wheel speed gives you the ability to get a new bite more rapidly. The down side is it stacks dirt up in front of the sled. There is a Delicate balance between to much gear and not enough gear.

Which is why the 15/17 combo works. Not much difference, but it makes all the difference.


Pulling is probably 40%-50% experience. You just can't be taught that. You have to be able to read the track, know the ability of your tractor...... Racing is the same way. FWIW, I've seen guys with good machines on the track who just didn't know how to drive them. Consequently I've seen guys with lesser machines win just because they were better at what they did, not because they had the better machine. It's a game. The only way to learn how to play is to do it..... Just because you have a good built machine, doesn't mean you'll win.

here's some pulls to watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoRzSHiKyN0

usually guys that go all over the place have more issues than gearing

That was great but way past anything am planning. The local competition is running Bosh coils, #30 carburetors, and maybe an 18hp cam and shaved heads but I doubt it. They only beat me by 4 feet, and I was running a 10" hitch height and had the timing set at 16 instead of 22. The engine dropped about 600 rpm at about 50 feet and kept going like the little engine that could out to 100 feet, then the tires dug a hole.

This year was the tire year. Next year I will buy a transmission from Midwest super cubs with a locking shifter and a 15-17 gear set. The following year I'll get the engine built if I haven't won a couple of trophies.

One thing I noticed about the videos is that they backed off on the throttle at the start until they got the sled moving.

4 feet is a LOT.

The tractors in the vid don't have a governor. There are few reasons they don't hold it wide open.....

they are WOT the whole run. We let them free rev at the starting line. they will hit 10,000. but there's no power there so when the tires start to hook it pulls the motor down to where there's enough hp and torque and then it builds RPM back up again.

Don

Thanks for posting the video. Looks like you had fun. :beerchug:

:beerchug: Yes Don thanks, now I know what you look like,lol.

Thanks Sam. That was in Sturgis Ky. NQS was trying to get on TV and Midwest Super Cub paid to have a recording crew there. NQS never did get a TV deal. but that was the sales footage they used.

The tractors that finished 1,2,3 & 6 had MVP motors in them. for those that didn't know MVP was Midwest Vogt's Performance. it was a deal between Midwest Super Cub and My brother Jim. had a good weekend there. starting last year Super Cub did start building their own motors under the JES name .

that was cool Don, thanks!! Are you pulling at burnett next year?? im missing steaming/thresheree/pulling season already......

I don't know. I sold the engine and trans out of my puller last winter. taking a couple years off. still working on them for others . went to 2 summer pulls last year to watch. My brother let me drive his in one class and we won. Bruce Austin has been letting me drive his NQS open Super Stock so I don't miss it to much yet. .

Always better when you don't have to pay to build the toy for the seat time. :beerchug:

that's one way to look at it.

Any driving advice for the garden stock altered or light stock modified?

What I am wondering about is, what is the best way to start off: wide open and give it hell, or about 3/4 throttle for the first 20 feet or so to get your line where you want it, then go full throttle? What about the end of the track? Would it help to back off the throttle a bit or just keep spinning tires until you stop moving?

Wide open throttle and use the clutch to control wheel spin. If you let off the throttle you may never get those RPM's back. Avoid dumping the clutch and bringing your front wheels way up in the air. Here is a video of my 10 year old.
Marne pull 2014: http://youtu.be/LwkbAW6fW24

you will find on an open RPM engine you almost use the gear as a governor to help control where the engine will run in the RPM band.
Austin is right on the money. WOT and easy on the clutch. in the NQS vid that I posted its not uncommon to ride the clutch 20 to 30 feet t keep the revs up . you should see some of the clutch's we take out that are all burnt blue,.

Sounds sort of like a top fueler or a funny car, it's all in the clutch to get it hooked up and down the track. :bigthink:

Don my wife looked at the vid and said she thinks your hot. :biggrin2:

She was probably taking about the background flames

Maybe I'm lucky your not in VA :biggrin2:

the one thing you don't realize watching the vid is there were 30 tractors in the finals that day. they just used the top 7 since that made up a 1/2 hour TV slot. before the finals ran there were 5 heats that totaled over 80 tractors. they took the top 6 from each heat to the finals.so there was a little competition to get there

Well you made the final cut so "You Da Man" :beerchug:

80 tractors in a class would be awesome.

Thanks for sharing guys. I'll give that a try next year. Don, you da man :beerchug:

Would a 20% under drive drop the stock 19 tooth second gear to a 16 tooth equivalent? Also, would a 16 tooth second gear be a good choice if you were only using one pulling gear? The engine is only 12 hp now but I plan to try and get 16 hp or so out of it.

20 % is pretty close, what size tires are you planning on running?

I have 23s and 26s so I can run different classes.