2186 - Trans Lost Power After Service
 

Hey guys,

I've been searching and reading up on this for days. I changed my fluid and filter in the 2186 at 195hrs. Didn't intend on doing the fluid, just filter, but that turned out to be a mess.

Out of necessity I searched for an alternate fluid - the 6-7qts of Drive System Fluid Plus was gonna be over a hundred bucks to replace. I didn't have the money, so I went with Rotella 5w-40 Synthetic first, then when I had the problem I'm about to describe, I drained that and filled with 15w-40 Rotella, thinking the 5w was too thin. I'm using a Cub Cadet filter.

That didn't help. The problem is that I've lost feeling in the pedal, and lost power when pulling up a hill or working the trans more than driving on level ground. I never noticed this before the fluid change. I almost have to floor it to get decent power going up hills. Reverse is not the same, it will spin tires if I floor it. I've adjusted linkages, lubed and cleaned everything. The easiest way to describe it is to say that I have to be much heavier into the pedal than I used to be. It feels like pressure is bleeding off. I've bled the system several times, fluid level is spot on.

Is it possible that the seal behind the charge pump is causing this problem? I've read several posts about that, but I think their concern was NO power at all, not lack of power. It's really weird.

I've still been using it to mow and work with, it's not so anemic that it won't work. I can still tool around the yard with it, haven't found a job yet that it wouldn't handle if I floored the fwd pedal.

Since I know we all like pics, here's some of what I've been up to with it:

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...18609104_n.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...21774811_n.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...90622903_n.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...52512060_n.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...34117023_n.jpg

Cool pics! Nice muddy ags. :biggrin2:

jsoluna I think the problem is you are using motor oil in the drive system hydraulics. That is a no-no. I would drain that stuff out and start from scratch. Go to NAPA and get a hyd filter and 2 gallons of there hydraulic fluid. Napas hyd fluid meets all IH standards and specs and is about $13 a gallon. Been using it for a long time and I have seen no ill affects on any of my machines. I have even used it in a couple JD's and they are still run ning strong. By the way if the rear happens to be ruined I have a 2186 I just gutted so let me know if you need any parts. Kelly

Well, there are tons of guys that swear by the Rotella, and there's been research done by people whom have contacted Hydro-Gear (maker of the hydro unit) and Shell (makers of Cub fluid) and found that Rotella 15w-40 is quite close to a perfect suitable alternative. It has been run for years and many hours and has a great testimonial evidence track for it. I know it doesn't work for the old IH rears that use HyTran, but those are the Sauer-Sunstrand pumps.

There is still the chance that it would be the problem though. I swapped filters and it didn't change anything. I ordered a charge pump seal, gonna be putting it in this weekend hopefully. If it still doesn't change anything, looks like I'll be saving up for the 105.00 worth of the OEM fluid!

And yah, it's been DRENCHED here all week. Actually have mud ruts in the making from test driving the Cub up and down the hills! The daughter loves it, she acts like she's on a rollercoaster when I floor it and take it for a spin.

Im not very knowledgable with the newer cubs but if its fine in reverse but having a hard time in forward i would look at the hydrolic valves on the top of you have them. Try swapping them and see if forward works but reverse doesnt. Maybe worn out release valves or maybe an oring let go. Good luck

Ok, so there is one common component between old and new pumps - the charge pump. Can someone explain to me what purpose the charge pump serves in a hydro trans?

Here's the part diagram for the Hydro Gear unit used in most of the newer Cubs (with exception of some of the 3000 Series). It's a BDU-10 unit, used in a wide variety of applications. It also has a strong track record for being a quiet, reliable, and decently strong GT hydro.

http://partstream.arinet.com/Image?a...%26langId%3D-1

There are several valves involved. The one I've read could be the culprit is behind the charge pump (o-ring I'm gonna replace is there as well). On the diagram, it is parts #25 and #22.

I'm not familiar with servicing hydro pumps nor am I very well versed in how they function. This is a learning experience for me.

On a lighter note, I towed a good heavy load of firewood uphill today and although I had to be heavy into the pedal, it did just fine. It still doesn't feel 'right' though...

When troubleshooting, I have found over the years that what you just did before the problem showed is what caused the problem NEARLY every single time.
You changed the fluid from what was working to what isn't working. I would look very hard at that as the source of the problem before replacing parts.
Why would the seal, or relief valved have caused the problem? Not saying they couldn't but why immediately after changing the fluid to a non stock oil? Do the oil flushing and replacing before going further, and the NAPA stuff sounds a lot cheaper.

I agree, and thanks for that reminder. I bought the seal because it was 2.00 and will be good to have around, even if the fluid change does solve it. At this point, I'm not going to waste any more money on fluid until I have enough to put genuine CC Fluid in it.

Update:

Finally gathered up the money to pay for the Cub Fluid! This will be the third fluid and filter change in two weeks!

Preliminary test drive looks promising :) I have some major seat time for it tomorrow, several customer's lawns, all of which are ridiculous hills.

Vince,

I did a lot of research before putting in the Rotella, and there are plenty of people using it with no adverse effects. Not me! I *immediately* noticed a change in how that trans acted after putting in the factory fluid. I will never go back! And I'm putting the word out now to anyone who asks: Rotella may be similar on paper in many ways but it is certainly NOT a risk I'd be willing to take again. I did what I had to do with the money I had, and I'm lucky that I didn't mess up anything internal.

I put the 2186 through the wringer today, took it out to the worst of the worst lawns that have super steep grades and it pulled like a champ. No more squishy pedal, the trans responds quick and strong once again! Gained my top speed back, and even reverse is stronger.

Cub Cadet Drive System Fluid Plus may be expensive, but in this particular application, I will never use anything else.

Glad to hear you got it straightened out!:beerchug:

I had a Lesco ZTR that used motor oil in the Hydro-Gear brand pumps. But for our Cubbies.....stick to what the manual says. In other words..:RTFM:. I'm glad it's working normal now.

I agree, with Mike. Glad you got it going. :beerchug:

Todd

Did you end up with that one in Gainsville? I had a thought on how I could hook up the command again into my super, I know here I go again, LOL
My case used 30 wt in the hydro pump, I hated to sell that tractor.

While were on the subject of trannys, funny thing the other day. Guy brought in his ZForce and said the left tranny locked up. Sure enough I couldnt get the dump valve to work to relese it. Then I got to looking, there was a long piece of rope wraped around the tranny pully and I told the guy that may be your problem. With out blinking an eye, he said so thats where that rope went too! Me him and the two guys that were in the truck with him just laughed. It was wedged in there so bad I had to pull the tranny out and the fan and pully off to get the rope out! :biggrin2:

Thanks for the replies guys. Feels great to have her back to normal.

I stopped by a guy's house the other day who had the same model of Cub as I have. I asked him about trans problems, etc. He never had any problems - but his tractor was a complete wreck! He bought it new in 99, so it's two years older than mine, but it looks like it's three times older. Panels beat back into shape with a hammer, scrapes and rust on the body, greasy-grass sludge piled up on top of the trans, clumps of grass under the engine shrouds....

Does it ever seem like some people can just abuse equipment and have less problems than people like me who are nuts about maintenance?

Oh, and Vince, that looks like one stout machine :) Good luck on the Command in the Super. I have nothing but praise for the Command in my 2186.

Bringing back this post from the dead because experience has taught me a few things.

Fluid type is one of those topics that just gets so much attention but little resolution, so I wanted to follow up after years of owning these machines.

Rotella 15w-40 in the HydroGear BDU-10 and BDU-12 works just fine. I'm not sure what anomaly had caused the scenario where the trans "lost power" on my 2186. I have since sold it but have owned several other 2000 Series and 3000 Series and I can say that not one of them has exhibited this issue.

One of the things that contributes to the feel of the pedal being "squishy" on these machines is in the linkage. If the hydro control rod and spring are lubricated properly, there should be a spongy-like feel to the pedal when you mash it to the floor. It functions similarly to the trunion springs on the IH/Sunstrand units to help control the "snap your head back" when making drastic changes in motion.

My guess is that I had lubricated that linkage when I did that service. That had caused the pedal linkage to move more freely. Most of these are never lubricated and so you have that instant response from a direct connection between the pedal and the hydro control.

That combined with (most likely) air needing purged from the system had caused the scenario I described if I were to guess.

All of this is to say I have used Rotella 15w-40 in all my HydroGear units without issue since.