CH22 giving me problems
 

I have a CH22 with a Klien carb on my 2284 and it is refusing to run. I was getting ready to plow my garden made one furrow and the tractor just abruptly shut down. I was able to determine that the engine was not getting fuel. Back ground on the engine is I rebuilt the carb and changed the fuel filter last spring and used the tractor every week all summer and I use it regularly now. Here what it will do start and run a few seconds then die. Choke it crank several times restart and die. If you pour fuel in the carb opening it will continue to run until you stop. Here is what I have done to try to solve the problem. Replaced the fuel filter and all fuel lines except the long one to the tank. I have fuel running out of the fuel filter. I dissembled the fuel pump and cleaned it. Checked that I have vacuum at the vacuum hose when the engine cranks. I have fuel which will spurt out from the pump when the engine cranks. I pulled the carb dissembled it,cleaned it with carb cleaner and blew compressed air through all the holes and jets and reset the float. Pulled the electronic shut off cleaned it made sure the actuator was free applied 12v and watched it work back and forth, checked the power line to make sure I had 12v there. Reassembled everything and again checked that I had 12v at the electronic actuator when the key was on. The engine still starts and dies still no fuel in carb. I pulled the top of the carb and I have fuel in the bowl. If I hadn't blown air through the carb I would think its stopped up but I know air will go through all the jets. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be thorough. Any suggestions? I took a break to see if Im missing something. I think Ill pull the carb and let it soak in cleaner as a next step unless you guys think of something Ive missed. Thanks for the help Don

Don

In your post you say you've checked the fuel solenoid. I'm wondering if for some reason, its still screwing up. But then if you have fuel in the carb, it should stay running. :bigthink: You definitely have a fuel problem, cause of the way you describe the manually dumping fuel in the carb. There's that small screw in the side of the bowl see if you can pull it out and let some fuel run out and try it again. Let the fuel run a bit, just to see if there's some kinda obstruction in the fuel inlet line.

Regardless you may still have to pull it back apart.

Just found what I think is a deal on Flea Bay. Brand new carbs for a CH22 with the acc pump. These were take offs from engines used by Ridley Motorcycles. Ridleys were Kohler powered automatics.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kohler-Carbu...item2a09f58904

I just bought one for my 2284, talked to Valerie at 405-525-5400

Sam

The first thing that came to mind was plugged gas cap vent.

Had a similar problem with a CH22 and it was that solenoid on the top of the motor under the air cleaner. Took it off cleaned it out, when I started the motor back up it spit and sputterd and I ever so gently tapped on that solenoid and it smoothed right out. Happened a couple more times after that and then there was no trouble. Tractor had been sitting for a couple of months so I am positive it got hung up and just needed to work some. Also read a lot about it and how some guys just eliminated it but I don't remember any more details other than grinding the tip off or something.

Sam good price! WOW!

I did a Courage today and it had a solenoid that wasn't working. I couldn't feel it clicking, or hear it, took it out and it was stuck open. Constant back fires.

My seleniod is not stuck and clicks out of the Carb. I pulled the Carb and dipped it again. I'm going to reassemble everything and double check. I saw those other carbs you mentioned so they are good? I may go ahead and order one also

Don

Will it idle at all?

If you keep the bowl full manualy it will run and idle, yes?

Then Im thinking you may have a needle problem. Some how its getting stuck and not opening to let the fuel in. Or maybe a float problem. The float dosnt have a crack in it dose it. I get hot water and let it soak in it as the crack will expand.

I would think that if it were a cap, it would take a little while for that problem to show, as it builds a vacume.

I'll let you guys know if they are good as soon as I get it. Cub gets $55.00 for just the gasket rebuild kit. Just did all that and it's better but still not the way I want it. Been working on the one I have now for 2 days and I've had enough. If this doesn't do it this 2284 is going to have a new Vanguard in it. I'm not going to sell someone a tractor that has a problem.

Vince,
It just shut off like you had turned the key off. Initially I thought it was ignition related until I began checking and found it was fuel related. It will not idle. It will start right up idle 3-5 secs and die. You can choke it and get it to try to restart with the same results. I checked my fuel flow up to the carb and determined Im getting fuel to the carb but not through the carb. The float was replaced last spring and I dont think it has a crack. The float bowl will be full of fuel. I can not see fuel coming out of the main jet into the carb when it cranks. If you pour fuel in manually it will continue to run until you stop. Currently I have dissembled the carb dipped it and have it cleaned and ready to go back together. I think I am getting a lot of junk out of the tank as the fuel filter was pretty dirty. Possibly enough small drugs got through to plug the carb and even though I used compressed air to blow it out it did not unstop. I am hoping the dip clean will clean it out. I am considering pulling the tank cleaning it and replacing every fuel line that way everything will be new. Its not the cap as I checked it and it is not stopped up. I have had that happen before and this is different. Keep the suggestions coming 2 heads are better than one.

Sam,
My engine is strong and the 2284 is a tank of a tractor but I think the carbs are just junk and the Kohlers are finicky. When I first got mine I had to replace the ignition coils do some minor re wiring and rebuild the carb before I got it just right. It still acted up every once in a while last summer. Ive thought about upgrading to a newer engine myself.

You say theres junk in the filter.

Is it black specks? If so thats fuel line that is rotting.

Yes that carb can be hard to work at times. Dannys 18 is running funny some times on 1 cylinder, and I replaced the coils befor I put the eng in. I still like the commands over the Vanguards, I think easier to work on and parts are cheiper, but both are good eng.

Update. I completely went through the carb again. Cleaned and reset everything. Checked the float setting twice and doubled checked that the shut off solenoid works correctly. It will start right up idle 3-5 seconds and die. Choke it and it will spit and sputter then start 3-5 seconds and die. When Im cranking it I can not see any fuel coming out of the main jet. The float bowl is full of fuel. I have reviewed my engine manual several times. I am about ready to just call it quits and give up. I even double checked that all my kill switches were working and the ignition system was working correctly even though I think its fuel related. Man Ive got a headache!

My new carb is supposed to be here Monday and as soon as I get it it's going on. If it cures my issue I let you know. If it is something else I'm going to put a new engine in it and be done with this one then I'll fix the CH22 and stick it in the 1882 that I just bought that needs an engine.

Thanks Sam. My deal just keeps getting better I dropped a screw and it went down in the front shroud. Finally found it wedged between the fly wheel and block. Tried every trick I know to get it out with no luck so I guess Ill be tearing things down to remove it. At least its not mowing season yet so Ill clean and check everything while its down then get back to the carb issue.

Wait till you take the engine tin from a Vanguard off, you get a coffee can of screw out of it.

I wish I was closer to you I'd like to see that carb and whats going on with it.

Now dannys command 18 aint firing! What have you guys done to me? LOL

Please let me know what you find out on the new carbs and stuff.

Well Vince I got the screw out with out tearing everything completely down. Got everything buttoned back up and again it will start try to run then die. I can now see some fuel coming out of the carb. I tried with and without the gas cap on even though I know it is not stopped up. I have fuel that will free flow from the tank line. I again checked all the safety switches to make sure they were cutting power. My seat switch is jumper wired and has been that way from the beginning but just for testing I removed the jumper with no change. At this point Im considering a bad fuel pump because the fuel stream looks like it tapers off and it is not steady or a remote possibility of the seat jumper shorting and not letting it run long enough to draw fuel in. Tomorrow Im gonna go back to see if I can direct feed the carb and it will stay running. I am open to suggestions. I wish I had access to a known good pump and carb to switch out for testing purposes.

fuel
 

I would try a tempory fuel supply.Put aux. tank hooked directly to carb to see if from tank to carb is not getting good fuel flow.I had off brand with b/s and engine would start and barely run popping and sounded like ready to blow up found screen in tank was plugged and just letting small amount of fuel thru.

Don

Got the new carb today from Ridley. Put it on and it runs a little better probably because this one has an acc pump and it give the engine a shot of gas as you open the throttle but it's still not the way it should so I have a good carb avalible if you need one. Starting to think my issue may be with the spark advance module. Some has worked on this engine before I got it so since I need one new engine anyway for the 1882 I may just go and order a new CH22 then take my time finding out what the issue is with this turd.

Thanks Sam. Here is my plan. I talked with the local Cub dealer and he is like I am and leaning towards a bad fuel pump. I am going to replace the fuel pump and see what happens. I am very interested in going ahead and also getting that carb from you. Its gonna be about 2 weeks before I do anything. PM me with the price you want for the carb.

Got the CH22 out of the 2284 and pulled the blower housing off. Here’s what I’ve found so far. A broken intake manifold bolt, insulation from the left coil starting to ooze out around the terminals, wiring for the right coil is a mess, blower housing is cracked in a couple places (looks like something blew up at some point in the past) sheet metal is bent under the flywheel. The screen is some kind of homemade mess. It has two different style coils. One of the bolts that are supposed to hold the lifting lug on the right side is broken off the other is stripped out. And I wondered why it ran poorly. Some people should not be allowed to touch tools. :bash2:

If others were not allowed to touch tools, you would have fewer learning experiences !!

And fewer opportunities to have so much fun!!

Well, that's the way I look at it anyway!! :bigthink:

WOOT!! WOOT!! Keep up the good work!!

Cad Plans

You do have a point. Guess the way I should look at it is had the PO not made such a mess of it he would still be running it and I never would have gotton the 2284 & the 2182. Maybe I should be thankful.:bigthink:

HELP this thing is driving me nuts
 

:bash2:
My engine is still doing the same thing. I went ahead and replaced the fuel pump while Im waiting on a carb but it will not even run pouring gas straight into the carb. I have meticulously went through my carb and I am beginning to think maybe since I can not get it to run by force feeding it there is something else up. Any suggestions?

Wow Sam that is a mess. CAD you got a point LOL!

Email sent

When I get a moment I'm gonna put the new engine on the bench next to the old one and see just what is different on the ignition. Old one has the SAM module and new one doesn’t so I want to see if I need to change the flywheel, if not it's getting 2 new regular coils. I have good compression, it has gas so to me that only leaves SPARK.:bash2:

Sam

That Sam was know to blow coils! Im reading up to take another Kohler refresher and another SEM told me that there was a few questions on it dealing with the sam.

A BIG BIG THANKS to Vince for helping me out. A second set of ears listening to my problems helped to get me on track to get the CH22 back running. I have got it torn down replacing some parts, cleaning everything and just getting everything tip top before mowing season. I think I will even do a little re painting while its apart. Again thanks to Vince for taking time to help a fellow forum memeber
Don

That's awesome! It's nice having great members to help us out!

Don

What did you find wrong on yours?

Sam

Don

It was nice chatting with you call anytime you get stuck. Glad I was able to help.

Sam

We talked about where hes been and where he was. I get your post and this post confused, as they are heading in the same direction. Anyway he had mentioned the emulsion tube, and a possible blockage. So I took one apart that I had, the smell of the green gas took my breath away, and the tube on mine was open. So what ever was lodged dislodged, relodged, in all the cleanings seemed to get stuck there. Don will better tell the story as hes there looking at the carb.

Guys,
I soaked my carb over night in Dawn dish washing liquid and could not believe the stuff that came out of it even though I had previously soaked it in parts dip cleaner. My line from the tank was disintegrating on the inside. I pulled the fenders, the tank and all the lines. I am cleaning everything installing new lines and fittings. The local Cub dealer let me use his sonic tank to clean my carb but my plan now is to order a new one. While the tractor is torn apart Im servicing everything and plan a quick repaint to cover some bad spots. This is going to set me back several hundred but its cheaper than buying a new mower and Im kinda fond of this one.

The new crapahol gas eats gas line. I'm replacing the fuel lines in all 3 Supers I'm working on and flushing the tanks. Nasty what I'm seeing. Starting to put the 1882 back together now with the new CH22. Had to take half the tractor apart to fix a loose shift lever but in the long run it was good that I did. The CV joint for the steering had never been greased and it needed a good cleaning and some new grease. Tractor is going to be a nice one once it's done. Then it will be the 2284's turn for a refurbish job. After they are done I'll get back to the CH22 that came out of the 2284 and sort it out.

Great job Don and Sam, and thank you Vince for helping these guys. :beerchug:
As you guys know my Dad and I have a 2086 and a 2084 and I think I will be checking the fuel lines on both of them also, thanks for the heads up guys.

Got a chance to day to pull the blower housing off one of the new CH22's to compare it to the one that I removed from the 2284. The new one does not have the SAM module. Manifold is different, flywheel is different but it looks like it should work OK with the coils for a non SAM engine. I'm going to pull the coils from the CH18 in the organ diner 2185 I just picked up and see if they will work before I run out and buy new ones.:bash2:

Sam

They should work. Im thinking on the next command rebuild I do Im going to put a diode in line to prevent that.

In Dannys I found that the coil that has the conector on it that grounds out both coils was bad. In turns shorted that one out and wouldnt let the other fire.

Let me know when your done parting the doner eng, I could use some internal parts for the 18 threw 22.

Vin

The CH18 from the 2185 organ donor runs fine so it's probably going to end up in a roller at some point. I'm only going to borrow parts from it for testing on the CH22. Not sure but I think the wiring harness has diodes already built in.

Sam

Oh ok I thought it was bad too. I like the commands to work on and when they are running good, they sound great.

Update and new question
 

Here is the latest update. The CH22 is finally running again:biggrin2: but you will never guess the final fix. First let me say I had multiple issues. First the tank lines were disintegrating sending junk all through the fuel system. So after several carb rebuilds and new lines I still had the same start and die issue. I felt that possibly it was ignition or a safety switch but I couldn't put my finger on it. I called my dad and had him come over and just double check everything. After he went through everything I had already checked we still had the same issue. While taking a break Dad was messing with the ignition switch comparing it to his 1572 he just bought. We decided to double check the seat switches and removed the jumper wire and she fired right up! Neither of us thought this was right so we re-installed the jumper and it still ran. Scratching our heads we went back over what we had done and decided it was the ignition switch. We removed the switch and it was corroded badly. After a good cleaning on the switch and plug the tractor starts and runs every time. Apparently the switch was only making partial contact and shorting on the run side. So thanks to a little bit if luck the problem seems to be fixed. Also thanks to my curious Dad LOL. Sam and Vince maybe we will get these cyclops figured out yet.
New Question How do you test the fuel gauge? I know my light works just want to test the tank gauge while its apart.