rebuild kit
 

Has anyone here ever bought one of these kits ? Seems awful cheep just wondering about the quality.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121009159500...84.m1423.l2649

I have a kit in my 128 engine and I have a kit for the 8hp motor that was in the 73 that belongs to my nephew. Now, I can't say as to how good it is, because I can't ever seem to get money or time to finish my 128 to get it started up, LOL. But, I had no issue with the parts other than the head gasket is crap. I just went up to the dealer and got a Kohler head gasket that has the fire ring around the cylinder area.

I put a kit from that seller in my 10 hp Kohler. It was the kit with piston, rings and gasket set. It seems to be working fine so far and all ring gaps and piston diameter were exactly where they should be.

Ok thanks. My engine id tag is long gone and I'm wondering if anyone can say for sure just what it is. So far I think it's a K321 14hp I just don't know if it's a D series or just what the D means ? My motor has a 3 1/2" bore and has breaker points.

rebuild kit
 

i used this kit for 13 rebuilds ,over the last 10 years ,and never had a come back .no matter what you use if the engine is set up right by the manual you will be fine ,be sure you have a good machinist [mic] all parts .don,t bore any bigger than you need too .setting the right clearance is the key .hope this helps .David

my 16hp rod/piston/gasket set from ebay was fine. I thought the gaskets might be horrible, but the head gasket had the fire ring. The materials on the other parts were good. Seal had the same identification as the seal I got at the kohler dealer.

Cleaniness and good machine work and it should last for decades with regular oil changes.

Michael

How can I I d this motor ? It has a 3 1/2" bore. I didn't check the stroke before I tore it down, at that time I had no idea there was no id tag on it.

You have a K321 14hp motor.

Download the Kohler service manual here:
http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinec...df/tp_2379.pdf

This is a screenshot from the manual showing engine specs. Your info is noted in the red rectangles

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb162/DXKLR/Bore.jpg

ok thanks !

Can anybody tell me what the valve to guide clearances should be ? I noticed the exh valves stem is .002 bigger than the intakes in this motor. clearance is now .002 on the exhaust and .004 on the intake.

Have you checked the service manual?

Don't have one yet. The owner waited till now to take it out so he has all winter to scrape up the cash. A manual is the first thing I'm going to get out of him as soon as he comes up with some cash. I'm just trying to get a head start, see just where we are at with things. I'ts strange the intake has more clearance, I'd think it should be the other way around.

You can download it for free at www.kohlerengines.com.

I didn't have any luck with that, I'm just not any good with pc's as far as down loading, saving, etc. Does anyone know the valve to guide clearance ?

Ok, I got a new factory manual now and I have a few ?'s. It says the valve face angle is 45* and the seat angle is 89* ? I've ground my share of seats and have all my own equipment to do it but I've never heard of a seat angle being that steep ? Every seat I have ever done has been 45*. Is this right for this motor or should I grind the seat at 45* to match the valve face ? Next ?, it says .0045 intake and .0065 exhaust for valve stem clearance but it does not say any range, like .003 -.0045 etc. I'd like to size them on the tight side for the sake of a future rebuild. I have guide equipment and can size them to any size. Also being as I need new valves anyways, are new valves available with oversized stems ? That way I could bypass replacing the guides all together.
Would it be worth getting a used head and milling out the cylinder area to make a torque plate for this motor ? I've made them for small engines in the past and I always use them on Harley's. Any thoughts on that ?

I would have to think that the *89 is a misprint!
The most I've seen is *45 with *46 interference some feel the 1* is better others seem to stick to 45-45*
The kohler blocks are pretty stout and while a torque plate has many virtues,
It is my feeling that you just will not see the benefit of finish honing with one installed.
FWIW,
Usually a torque plate is made out of thick steel, not the aluminum that the head is made out of.
You can go to parts tree . com to see if oversize valve stems are avail.
Some valve recession into the block takes place, so I would try to stick to specks not tighter, you can always take more off the valve stem but to decrease you have to deepen the valve seat into the block making grit to get into the engine, if you know what I mean.
and if you try to take it off the valve seat, it starts to get thin in a hurry.

Your miss-reading the manual.

The table gives the wear limit for v/g clearance. Note the exhaust valve stem is tapered. If memory is correct, in the v/g replacement section- you ream a v/g with a 5/16 reamer for a perfect fit. Guides are cheap- remove them, put some new ones in.

For the seat- 89 degree's is the included angle between BOTH seats. Not with respect to vavle guide or top. So divide it by 2=0)

Don't think a torque plate would make any difference. If you bore it, just make sure you get it centered and a good straight bore. If you hone it, the least taper and out-of-round possible.

Remember this is a 3600 rpm engine... I had the same problem of not uppping the antee with hot-rodding stuff.

Does anyone know what the tolerances on the guides is ? I need to know just what it should be sized at and not the wear limit the manual says. I do have plenty of reamers but I always final size with my Sunnen valve guide hone.

torque plate
 

I went ahead and made a torque plate for it. After talking to a few builders the general consensus was yes do it. It should help with ring seal. I found a used one on ebay for $4.99. I put 2 pictures in my gallery. Got to get the piston now and try it out.

What is the purpose of the torque plate?

iirc it simulates the head being bolted to the block. Naturally since the bore is a hollow tube it distorts a tiny bit when everything is bolted down so with the torque plate on its distorted and when you bore/hone it it will be a little straighter. At least that's the way it was described to me

I got a used cam and lifters off ebay. One difference is there is no band around the top of the lifters like the old ones had. I don't see any other difference and the valve spring seat fits over them. The cam is like new but the lifters are mixed up. They didn't mark which one goes on which lobe, is that going to be a problem ? I know there isn't a whole lot of spring psi so it might not matter ? These lifters have an adjuster that threads in and out they have a pretty good wear pattern worn into them from the valve tips. Can I just regrind them flat in my valve grinder ? They will fit into the valve tip grinder so I don't see why it wouldn't work ? The only thing that bothers me is weather or not the heat treating would be effected or if it matter ? If they don't cost much I could replace them but I don't know where to get them ? For all the more I payed for the cam and lifters I could just replace them as well as the lifters if they don't cost all that much.

yes you can grind them in your "V" block that you would normally use for the valve stems, just use the same caution to not get them hot as they are heat treated.
If they just need minor touch up, I see no problem,and if
there is no noticeable wear on the part that rides on the cam I wouldn't worry about mixing them on the lobes.
Like you say, the spring pressure ain't like a BB chevy running high spring pressure.

Thanks. Does anybody make a set of molly faced piston rings for this motor ? The rebuild kit has chrome rings. I don't think model T technology is a good thing for this motor.

You building an all out race/pulling engine or a stock rebuild?

Nothing wrong with chrome rings,they arent model "T" tech.
In those days pistons and rings were cast iron.
From Hastings:

HASTINGS PISTON RING SET COMPOSITION RECOMMENDATIONS:


When asked if he wants a piston ring set with moly, chrome, or cast iron faced top compression rings the mechanic often returns the question to the jobber salesman by saying, "What should I use?"

There is some confusion in the trade as to what type ring set should be used. Hastings would like to offer some suggestions to help the consumer make the proper decision for his particular application.

The single most important factor to be considered in selecting the proper top compression ring face coating material is the service requirements the engine will be operated under. Will the engine be subjected to unusual speed or load operation, stop and go - short trip driving, or operating in a high dust or dirt environment? if, for example, the vehicle is a passenger car operated by family members for what could be termed the average driver, it really doesn't matter which type is selected from a standpoint of the life of the engine and piston rings. On the other hand if one of the above mentioned conditions is going to exist on a regular basis then no doubt one type of ring face coating will be more appropriate than the others.

The three popular types of top compression ring face coatings, chrome, moly, and cast iron, each has advantages of its own with respect to operating conditions. Moly has a very high resistance to scuff. Chrome has good resistance to scuff but does not exhibit moly's oil retention capabilities. Plain cast iron is a durable wear surface in normal operating conditions and is less costly than the moly or chrome faced ring.



For typical light duty service where the vehicle Is not subjected to long periods of high speed or load operation and is run primarily on paved streets, plain cast iron is a good choice because piston ring cast iron Is very durable when not subjected to unusual dirt or heat conditions.

When faced with continuous high speed or severe load conditions, the engine will be subjected to long periods of high temperatures. Moly Is then a good choice because of its scuff resistance. Moly, which is an acronym for molybdenum, inherently is quite porous in its applied state which results in excellent retention of oil in the face of the ring. Moly also has the highest melting point of the three popular face coatings which results in its capability to live better under more severe operating conditions, or more specifically to resist scuffing and scoring.

In a dusty environment such as gravel pits, sand or rock mines, or operating on a dirt or unpaved roads, chrome is the best choice. As mentioned earlier, moly because of Its porosity holds oil on the O.D. face of the ring which helps inhibit scuffing. Pores on the material also can serve as a trap for foreign materials, however. Because of the incoming air/fuel mixture probably will contain some abrasive contaminant In a dusty environment, chrome with its smoother O.D. surface is a logical choice. Chrome's extreme density and hardness resists the Impingement of dirt Into the face of the ring which accelerates cylinder wear, and actually contributes to the exhaust gases carrying some of the airborne contaminant out through the exhaust system. Chrome has more resistance to scuffing and scoring than cast iron but somewhat less than moly.

All in-all when the engine experiences normal driving conditions and is properly maintained with respect to oil and air filter changes, any of the three coatings functions equally well. It is the installer's expert judgement in analyzing the primary use of the engine that should lead him in a direction of which ring set will be the best possible choice for that particular customer's engine.

i have one of those in my puller for a k301 and they r pretty decent and not a bad price they are tiwan parts but almost as good as nos

rings
 

Thanks Ol'George for explaning rig sets. Mike

This factory manual leaves a lot to be desired as far as clearances go.

Torque plate results...
 

I bored the cylinder and tried the torque plate on it last night. I wasn't having any problem keeping it within .0001 -.00015" out of round. In one small band at the top it changed it an additional + .0002" but overall it stayed within .0002" out of round after I removed the plate. It didn't effect taper & overall wasn't much of a change, in just one small spot. I won't bother with one again unless it was some sort of competition engine.

I think I have found an issue with these kits. I bought a complete kit for by 10 horse rebuild. So far I have been happy with the quality of the parts supplied, however my k301 has a normal oil pan, the the dipper on the rod hits the pan. I suppose that the rod was intended to be used with a deep sump pan. This shouldn't be a problem in my case as I think I have a deep sump pan I can put on. However if someone buys this kit and does not have a pile of donor engines, he would have to fork out some money for a different pan or get a different rod. I will try to contact this seller and discuss it with him, see if he can offer different rods or not. Correct me if I am wrong, but the seller needs to change the description on his ad as it states that the model suffix will not affect whether the kit will work or not. The suffix needs to be determined and a different rod will need to be offered. Again, everything else seems fine and I am happy with the purchase. This is just as much my goof as it was his.

rod torque
 

What has anyone that has bought a kit doing for rod torque ? I contacted the seller of the kit and he said that the mfgr says just torque it and do not overtorque to 20% then torque to specs like the factory manual says to do. Anyone know just why the Kohler manual says to overtorque in the first place ?

Can you just trim the dipper to fit the short oil sump?

Anybody on the rod torque that bought one of these kits ?

That oil dipper might not be the only thing wrong with the rod, did you check every aspect of the rod over closely ? Including the rods big end oil clearance ?

Yes, I do not see any issue with carefully trimming it. I already had everything torqued in place before I noticed it. I did not want to untorque the rod bolts, nor did I want mess with trying to cut the dipper and keep fines out of the block. It was easier in this case just to swap the pans.

Also, I emailed this seller over a week ago and have never heard back. He has good feedback on his profile, but he apparently isn't interested in addressing this issue. I haven't checked to see if the verbage has changed in his ad. I let him know that the ad is false when it states that the model suffix has no affect on the kit.

http://shop.kustomlawnandgarden.com/...UNE-UP-k12.htm


"1-Connecting rod in size std or .010 WE ALSO OFFER A .020 ROD FOR $20 MORE ( NOTE! ) Some older kohler engines in cub and john deere may have a shorter dipper in which this rod must be cut off with a hack saw to exactly 2 inches. these are rare but compare your dipper to length of one in this kit!"

I believe the ebay seller should adopt a similar disclaimer.