8 hp no spark
 

I bought a model 400 tiller last yr that had been sitting in a barn for 10 yrs. I'm trying to ready it for spring but the engine has no spark. I don't know where to start or what to check on this type of ignition system. It is an 8 hp Briggs, any help is appreciated.

Attachment 49156

Bill

Pull the flywheel and clean the points up. Clean the magnets on the flywheel and bottom of the coil. See what ya got then.

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't have points.... that's a magneto in the pic. It's probably bad. You can clean the magnets and bottom of the coil, but in my experience it seldom works.

Most of the older non magnetron have points,which are behind the flywheel.

Briggs went to a mag a long time ago.... in the 70's. I'm familiar with both styles.... The parts book doesn't show points either. :beerchug:

yes I know ,but It may be older,maybe if he has the code we can decipher its age.

There are two wires connected to the magneto that go down behind the flywheel....so it does have points? What kind of job is it to pull the flywheel, i.e. do I need a puller? I ran some sand paper over they flywheel magnets and bottom of the coil earlier with no result. How clean do they need to be, shiny new, light surface rust okay? Sorry if the q's seem basic but engine repair is not my strong suit.
Thanks for the help!
Bill

Man you guys are fast. Here are some numbers from the flywheel shroud. I should have posted these in the first place, sorry

Mod 190402
Type 1835 03
Ser 80080512

Bill

That has no points like Jonathan said,you can try cleaning the magnets and that is about it.

The two wires might be for the kill ( on/off) switch. I have one of those engines in my chipper.

Bad things happened to mine :angry: It stopped quite suddenly :bigeyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...5.jpg~original

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...3.jpg~original

OUCH Jeff!!
Looks like maybe the front bearing seized and broke the crank? Or did you feed a tree into it? :biggrin2::bigthink: LOL!

Seized is an understatement. I was chipping small branches, all under 3/4" of an inch and it broke while I was getting another handful to chip.

All of a sudden it stopped running and the belt screeched like mad as the flailing hammer drum stopped. I pulled the recoil starter but it wouldn't move. Then I noticed the starter was bulged out.

That was the carnage I found. I purchased another 8 hp B&S and used that. The replacement motor burns some oil but I don't use the chipper that much. When this engine blows, I'll convert it to Cub Cadet powered :biggrin2:

Jeff, Thanks for boosting my already low confidence of b&s engines. :biggrin2:
I've only had one other horizontal shaft b&s, it was awful and seized on me as well, just not in as dramatic fashion as yours. The kill wire runs down the back to the throttle linkage, it's a pull the throttle closed and ground the spark style shutoff.


So if cleaning the magnets doesn't do it, I need a new magneto. I can handle that, assuming they are not ungodly expensive.
Thanks

Bill

I had rebuilt my K-301 in my 125 a couple weeks before the B&S self destructed and was less than impressed with the cheap way out in manufacturing techniques they employed.

B&S = broke and scattered
Just my 2 cents but I wouldn't spend much on it. You can probably find a running engine on C-List or just get one of these Chondas
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...4290_200514290

Looks like it has points to me.
http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Jac...on/89148/88753

I dunno...... By that pic yes. By the model number, no matter what the code, they have points. By the CCC parts look-up, the motor on a 400 tiller does not have points. We had one years ago, I don't remember it having points.... but that was a long time ago.

Trace the small wires coming out of your mag, it one runs down behind the flywheel, then it probably has points.

:bigthink::Huh::Huh:

When I had my 582 motor apart There were a set of points on it but it was not used.

Yeah, that is a possibility too. I had forgotten that Lew! B&S did make a replacement module that did away with the points. I've installed those before. Forgot all about that! Good call! :beerchug:

Was thinking that too, but funds aren't plentiful, was hoping to get through this season. If you look up the 400 tiller on partstree, it doesn't list points, but other places do. I'll try to get out there this afternoon and find out for sure.

Partstree lists the coil as BS 398811, can I replace it with an electronic unit and forget the points (if it has them).
Thanks

Bill

I took a quick look, there is a wire from the mag that goes down behind the flywheel and the kill wire that comes up and back to the throttle plate on the back of the engine. I will try to take the flywheel off this week to file the points and see if that does it. I took a pic, not the greatest, the wires are to the left of the flywheel magnet which is bottom center. You can also see the kill wire running back on the left side.

Attachment 49285

Bill

Bill

I took this off a junk B&S that is going to the scrap yard. If you want it it's yours for the postage. This is the type that doesn't need points.

Sold! pm sent. I've been looking at new magnetrons that don't require points so I don't have to deal with removing the flywheel. Yours is the best price I've found! :biggrin2: Thanks Sam!

Bill

Bill

I'll get it in the mail today and send you a tracking number. It fits in one of those small priority boxes so you should have it in a couple days. I think it's good but I'm not positive. Like I told you if it works just cover the postage.

Awesome! Thanks again Sam! :beerchug:

Since your system has a kill wire, make sure that the wire doesn't have a bare spot where it could be grounding out, and check that the kill switch isn't shorted, either.

I found that cleaning the magneto and the magnets on the flywheel with very fine (800 or finer) sandpaper sometimes helped. I would use 2 sheets of standard notebook paper as a feeler gauge to set the magneto gap. Not sure if that was the correct gap, but it seemed to work well on 3 to 7 HP engines.

Success! I bolted the mag Sam sent me on and tested it. It gave a nice bright spark. I checked the ground wire for nicks, hooked it up, set a .010 gap on the mag and put everything back together properly. I had already rebuilt the carb, cleaned the fuel system, new fuel line, sparkplug, air filter and oil change. Poured a little gas in it, and fired up on the first pull! Let it warm up and dialed the carb in, runs great. Little gray smoke on throttle up, have to keep and eye on my oil level as I use it. Thanks for all your help and thanks again for the part Sam!

I snapped a quick pick, since it runs I guess I can clean the barn dust off it!
Attachment 49498

Bill

Bill

Glad that it worked. Guess it's a good thing I didn't clean my shop out sooner because the mag was on a blown B&S that is going to the scrap yard. :beerchug:

Great news, Bill! Nice QL and tiller!

Good to hear you got it fixed Bill! Looks great!

Good to hear. Looks good bill.:beer2:

Bill

Make sure you post pics of that in action. :beerchug:

I agree. I would like to see a video, that looks pretty cool.

Glad you got it fixed.

Sam you da man!

Thanks guys! The old ql doesn't look too bad on camera (hides the po spray job). :biggrin2: I'll see if I can get mrs berwil to take pics or a video. That is of course after everything drys out, getting another inch of rain tomorrow! Sam, it's a good thing you didn't clean up, usually with my luck you would have cleaned up last week and just gotten rid of it. HaHa

Bill