Help - 1872 won't start and might be eating batteries
 

I am new to all things mechanical and purchased a very used, but currently running 1872. After I got it home, it did not want to start. (It went Wah Wump Wah Wump etc. I kept at it, eventually the battery died and it just clicked) I fixed it with a new battery and new battery cable to the solenoid.

A few weeks later, same problem. Checked the wires - everything is still snug. Lights still work. Checked the battery volts and got 6.2. Hooked up a tender for 3 days. Checked volts again - 12.9 - but Still won't start. Solenoid audibly clicks, but the engine just goes wah wump, might sputter once, and then the pace slows.

Someone mentioned it might be grounding out, but I have no idea how to check for that.

Where do I start with troubleshooting this thing. I have zero skills, but want to learn.

- James
Woodbine, Maryland

check how much voltage is getting to the starter stud while cranking. make sure you're not losing power thru a connection.

I'll do that tonight. After i posted yesterday I went and looked at the old battery cable I took off and the plastic was melted and black at the battery terminal side. I don't know if that means anything or could have been caused when I first tried to jump the old dead battery. The new cable still looks fine.

Also, I noticed that on the solenoid there is a small red wire coming off the bottom right post that does not have a nut securing it in place. I have no idea what that is yet but plan to try and find a nut that will hold securely.

Regarding your suggestions, I assume I should be able to reach those posts by taking the metal shielding off from the side of the motor? Once I find the starter, do I check the voltage while trying to crank or just while the key is in the on position? Should the meter stay around 12v or is it normal to get a significant drop at the starter.

Also, would it be wise to try and jump the tractor from the starter posts or is that a bad idea?

Thanks for the help.

It means you had a "high resistance" connection. Possible causes are: loose, dirty, and/or corroded connection.

That is the power wire that energizes the Solenoid when you put the Ignition Switch into the "start position" There needs to be a nut on there and snug tight.

OK first thing I'd do if it was my tractor is to pull the engine out, remove the tins and give it a good cleaning. Then you can check out the starter. They are a major PITA to get at in the tractor. Look at all the electrical connections. Make sure they are clean and tight. Cubs are notorious for crappy electrical issues. Battery on an 1872 is under the seat and they run the ground cable to the frame. I'd run a ground from the battery right to the engine block. You can try a quick and dirty test to see if you have a bad ground problem by taking a jumper cable, connect it to the negative terminal on the battery and the other end to the engine. If it spins over the way it should then you know you have a crappy ground. OK maybe I'd do this before pulling the engine. If that doesn't do the trick then go for pulling the engine. Easy way to do this is to remove the engine with the plate that it's bolted to. Six 3/8" bolts that you get at from under the tractor. Two of them are up over the top of the axle. Don't be surprised if you find a mouse condo under the engine sheet metal like this one had.

Suggest that you download the service manual.
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=25397

Thanks for all the help so far.

I opened the tin covers, cleaned everything I could reach. It was mostly pretty clean.

I tried to jump the negative terminal to the engine without any change. I checked the volts at the post on the starter and it read 6v when cranking.

The starter is engaging the main gear/wheel thing and turning it, just not very fast. I also tried to jump the starter with a different battery directly. I think had I left it on, the tractor would have turned over, but sparks started to fly and it made some unnatural clunk sound (possibly the starter retracting?) so I pulled out. It definitely sounded like it was about to turn over though.

Soooo... I am figuring that I have a wiring problem, not a starter problem. I assume my next step is running new wire from the solenoid to the starter? I am looking at the wiring diagram and it looks like a straight run, but is there anything to look out for when I do it? I am hoping I can just pull the wire though the existing wiring shroud.

Is there anything else I am not considering?

Are you sure this thing hasn't tossed a rod or some other serious engine issue?
You may want to pull the spark plugs and see if you have compression on both sides. :bigthink:

Sam Mac - how do I test for compression? I did pull the plugs and made sure they were sparking (they do). It is possible I flooded the engine at some point I guess and I know that can screw up compression. But since the problem persists day to day, I assume that's not my issue.

Why are you thinking mechanic as opposed to electrical?

Because you said "and it made some unnatural clunk sound"

Something is telling me you don't have a good ground. If you have some extra heavy wire (8- or 6- awg) you can ground directly from the battery to the engine. If this gets it cranking normally, it would tell you that between your engine and your battery that the one of the numerous connections (engine to engine mounting plate to frame to battery box to battery) is not clean. If you can clean some of these points, you may be able to fix your problem. Di-electric grease may also be of benefit here. Also, if you've done any starter work and twisted the bolt on the back of the starter, it will go to ground and give you troubles. Take the back end of the starter off and re-align the bolt to fix that problem. Just fixed this problem over the weekend on one of mine.

Good Luck!

If it were mine,
I'd use a good set of jumpers( heavy gauge) from a vehicle battery, paying attention to polarity, put a + lead on the starter post.
Then touch the neg jumper to the starter body, if it cranks properly you have electrical connection problems etc.
If it don't crank properly, you have either a starter problem or mechanical engine problem.
it is that simple.:beerchug:

1872
 

A little late and just a question. This would have nothing to do with your voltage issue. Are you sure the cylinders aren't full of fuel. If it ran when you first got it and then the issue started ( no pun intended) I would pull the spark plugs and see if it turns over freely and without any clunks.
Worth a try, I've had it happen with ore that a couple CC's

Mike

Thanks
 

The beast lives. Turns out I had three problems, two I have solved. One I am working on. Problems 1 and 2 were bad gas and a junked carb. I got rid of the old gas, got some new gas and put some Startron in with it, and removed & cleaned the carb. Started right up with a jump. I am still having electrical problems.

Do you know if the battery meter on the dash should be pulling volts even with the key off? If the answer is no, then that's my problem.

Although a bad ammeter will cause issues, just because it doesn't return the needle to center when it is off doesn't mean that it's bad. (Yes, it should read 0 or be in the center, when the key is off.) If the meter was bad, then nothing would work as battery voltage is fed to the key through it. If you are having electrical problems, the best way to find them is with a DVOM. The wiring diagram for your machine will be in the Chassis Service manual. You need to either test and find the problem, or be more specific on the problems you are having so we can offer assistance on testing procedures. :beerchug:

follow up info
 

So the problem I have is that my battery isn't holding a charge. I initially replaced the battery, the battery cables, and ran a new wire from the solenoid to the starter motor. Still losing volts when it's off though. (I have installed a battery switch as a temporary fix and that seems to be keeping the battery from running out of power overnight).

Last night, I hooked a test light to the negative of the battery and put the probe on the ammeter and the light came on. I tested for volts with one end of the probe on the battery and the other on the positive side of the ammeter. It read 10 volts, which is what the battery was at. This was with the tractor off and the key out.

I'm sure i have a wiring problem or a ground short somewhere, I just don't know where. I'm thinking the issue would be with the key, but this ammeter thing seems promising. I can't see why it would pull current with the key out and engine off.

Also, the ammeter seems broken. It stays at zero even though I know the battery charges. (If I jump start the tractor and run it for a while and then test the battery it gets back to 12-13v pretty quick). The ammeter stays in the middle the whole time.

I do plan to check the ammeter wiring, but if it's normal for it to be hot even with the tractor off, it might just be another rabbit hole. Regardless, I'm just happy to have it running just in time to start mowing.

Any ideas or thoughts are appreciated.

YES.

Since the Ignition Switch has to ground the "kill wire" from the engine to stop it, I would look at that Switch first.

I know Roland just said it, but I'll say it also. YES, that is normal.

I too agree the problem is more than likely in the key switch.


As a test, disconnect the negative batter terminal. Install a test light between the negative cable and the negative battery terminal. Key off, the light should be out. If it is on, then you have some sort of parasitic draw. Using this set-up unplug things until you find the system that has the short. NOTE: If you unplug the ignition switch and the light goes out, it does not necessarily mean the switch is bad, it just means that the problem is in a circuit that feeds off the switch. To test the switch itself, use a DVOM. Same with all components, (PTO switch, safety switches, ect.)