New issue with the 1864
 

Today I finished putting the 2165 together and while I was in the garage, I decided I'd go ahead and change the oil and filter on the 1864 since I had the engine apart. I fired it up and was letting it run to warm the oil and out of nowhere it shut off. It fired right back up and was running rough like the choke was stuck. I pulled the air cleaner to see what was going on and it started running perfectly. The air filter was pretty oily because it was blowing some oil prior to the head gasket change so I ran and got a new NAPA Gold air filter and put on it and the same thing. It runs perfect with no air filter but runs bad with it. What might cause this? Choke is operating like it should. I've mowed twice since putting this back together last weekend and it has ran fine. Again this happened while it was running in the garage.

I would try adjusting the main carb jet. It's in the rear, bottom of the carb. You'll have to take the top engine shield off and shove the battery back to get to it.

If the plastic lock is gone, somebody has already been in there and no telling how it will be adjusted.

I just found one on a CH 18 that the main was about six turns open.

cub
 

Hi, these ch's need just a touch of choke to run right, or better. Don V has said this before. Watch where your choke flap is at while running. I have one just like this, thinking of opening up the jet the next time i am into it. Mike

Take the nut off the air cleaner stud and try to lift up the metal filter element cover with the engine running. If engine vacuum is trying to suck that cover down on the element, your filter is restricted.

Your engine should run the same, filter or no filter unless it's some way restricted.

Quite honestly, what you're reporting is a little confusing. Something like S... happens.

Mike

Just a FYI the jet your referring to is the idle air screw. The main jet is not adjustable and it's inside the carb behind the fuel shut off solenoid.

If memory serves me Bass posted a vid showing his air cleaner lid flopping around a while ago. My guess and it's only a guess is he has a plugged air cleaner.

Yes, I know what that jet is for but some of his testimony is a little confusing. He indicated his problem started in the garage. Prior to that it ran fine and then he changed the air filter and still no change. Just covering bases.

That's why I suggested he had a restricted air cleaner in spite of the fact he said he bought a new one.

The main jet in the carb is not going to go suddenly too rich. On the other hand, he MIGHT have a needle/seat in the carb leaking by but removing a brand new filter element is going to change anything there.

What I'm reading is that it runs OK with no air cleaner but acts like the choke is on with an air cleaner. Just tossing out a couple ideas.
1: The old air cleaner is plugged with oil causing restriction.
2: Just maybe the new air cleaner is defective(Think someone mention a while ago they had a problem with a new air cleaner)
3:Maybe he has some junk in the needle and seat and it's flooding. (I just rebuilt a carb on a Vanguard that had crap in it because the fuel line after the filter started to rot and some of the hose got inside the carb)

I agree with all three of your suppositions.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. As I stated, I mowed twice after putting the engine back together and I had the old air cleaner on it. The old air cleaner was brand new a couple of months ago. It has absolutely no dirt on it, just a bit of oil. I decided to replace it because of the oil although I don't see how the oil is even a problem since the pre cleaners are suppose to be oiled anyhow. It ran perfectly fine and the jumped to this condition all of the sudden. I don't understand how a filter could just go plugged all at once so Im leaning toward this not being a filter issue.

Every inch of the fuel system has been replaced from the tank to the carb but there is a chance that a piece of something got in there while I had it all apart. Ill pull the carb and clean it all up again for the 100th time!!! Lol. Ill report back with my results.

I wish I had an answer for you, sounds like you have the Kohler from H--L.

Yeah, I think so. I told the wife if this thing keeps acting up, Im gonna sell it or put a brand new motor in it. Either way, I lose. With a new motor, Id be into it for about 3400 bucks.

Had water heater issues tonight so I didn't get around to pulling the carb. Ill try and get to it tomorrow afternoon after my daughters dance recital. Im sure its something simple this time and the carb makes since, since I just had the entire engine apart. I also noticed a little dirt in the fuel filter that shouldn't be there since everything is new so Ill be replacing that as well. I havnt a clue where that came from. I thought I did a pretty good job of cleaning up the tank and the shut off valves but its possible I missed something.

On a positive note, while it was running, I mowed the lawn twice an got the 2165 back together. Having a spare tractor and grass that isn't a foot high makes this issue not near as stressful as the last one!

Thanks again for the suggestions. I hope to report back with good news!

Good news and bad. I took the carb apart and cleaned it up and it will run with the air filter on but now it will run great for a few minutes and then fall on its face. If I quickly throttle it down, it will return to idle and then I can throttle it back up again and it will repeat. There has to be something stuck in this carb that Im missing. I did notice that the o-rings on the low speed jet are in pretty rough shape and I cant see the o-ring for the main jet in the hole so its possible that it isnt even there. Im going to go ahead and get a rebuild kit on order so that everything in the carb is new. Im also gonna take Sams advice and clip the plunger on the solenoid to eliminate that as a possible problem.

This may be a stupid question but does the low speed jet have a hole the entire length of the tube? Meaning should I be able to look into one end and see light in the other?

I think you still have a blockage.

You should be able to blow compressed air in the jet hole and have it blow out the other end.

I wouldn't cut that pin off the solenoid just yet. You may regret it later. If the solenoid is working smooth and fast, it should be okay. If you're losing power to it, that's another issue. You can check that by attaching a test light to the solenoid wire and keep an eye on it when the engine tries to die. Just my opinion.

You may be on to something with the O rings not sealing. Don't know.

I can blow air through either end and it comes out the little holes in the sides but will not blow end to end. I may have to soak that jet in some solvent or something. Ive just been using brake cleaner and compressed air.

Take a small wire and run up through the bottom. That's one place they stop up. Matter of fact, run the wire through every hole in that jet. That is the high speed jet you're talking about? The ones with the O ring on each end?

I thought it was the low speed jet but yeah its the one with the small o ring on each end. Is there a jet Im missing? I thought there was a main jet and a low speed jet. Im going to have to pull up a diagram and have a look again.

Okay, pulled it apart again. There is no way that's a through hole. Its definitely blocked with a wall that's intentional.

I think I figured out the problem though. I just don't know the cause or how to correct it. Its blowing a ton of oil from the little tube that runs from the top of the crank case up into the breather. What would cause this?

I used to think the same thing until I was able to work a small wire up through the hole.

Your right on the slow jet. It is blocked off. If your o rings are bad that could be your problem.

I'm gonna rebuild the carb just because it's obvious that the o rings are bad. Any issues with the carb wouldn't cause it to blow oil would it? Even if rebuilding the carb makes it run right, I've got to stop the oil issue. I understand a little oil is normal but there is no way the amount I'm getting is normal.

Your saying mine is plugged or its intentionally blocked off? Seems to me that it's suppose to be. I poked around with a small wire and it dosnt feel like a blockage, it feels like it just bottoms out.

I have had in my hands, two of those jets in the last couple of weeks. Maybe mine are broke but after probing around with a small stiff wire, I opened up a hole and you can blow through it and the air comes out the small holes in the upper side of the jet.

Maybe I broke mine?

Okay, Ill dig around again when I go to rebuild the carb.

Any thoughts on the oil blowing out of the breather tube?

Blow by or a bad head gasket would be my guess.

When I did my head gaskets on mine I did about everything possible. Did you do anything with your breather cover. There's a reed valve ( I think that's what is called) and filter under that and also where the oil pressure sender screws into.

Hmmmm....... maybe not a carb problem at all..... :bigthink:

If this thing is puking oil into the carb it will never run right. Just had a Vanguard with a bad head gasket do what yours is doing. As a test I removed the hose that goes from the crankcase vent to the filter and replaced it with a longer hose to get the oil from blowing into the intake. Ran it to a small pail. Then I was able to get it to run enough to determine what it's problem was.

Considering that you have replaced, head gaskets, ignition modules and rebuilt the carb multiple times you may want to consider looking for a replacement engine. Just my 2 cents.

No I havnt done anything with that breather assembly.

Yeah that's what Im thinking. I ran it yesterday and watched what was happening and it runs geat until the carb is overwhelmed with oil.

Ill try that today. What am I looking for to determine a head gasket issue? This tractor has only been run maybe two hours since the head gasket replacement and everything was torqued and retorqued to spec. What would make them blow that fast?

Ill start lookin around for another engine. Id prefer to just drop a brand new one in it but my wife may flip her lid. If Im going to go that route, I might as well tear the whole thing down and sandblast and paint it.

Do a compression test. When you did the head gaskets did you get the heads nice and flat? Not sure you need to re-torque the heads on the CH's. For what it's worth I have not re-torqued heads on Vanguards.

Yes, assuming the 1/2" tempered glass I used is flat. I followed a link that someone sent me here. I sanded with 180 until everything was nice and flat and then polished them up with 220.

I just looked through the service manual and didn't see anything about re-torqueing the heads. Just wondering if that could have caused a problem? I don't know. Maybe someone else will chime in. :bigthink:

You'll need to do some testing to see if you do in fact have a bad head gasket first.

Yeah, I couldnt find anything in the manual either and the instructions didn't say anything about it. I only did it because I saw it mentioned here a few times. FWIW, none of the bolts turned more than an eighth of a turn when I did the retorque.

Ill get a tube hooked up today and see if I can eliminate the carb as a problem. My wifes uncle owns a machine shop. He builds race engines. Maybe I can get him to stop by one day and have a look and tell me something before I proceed. I don't wanna keep dumping money into this engine if its just gonna continue to fail.

Now we are getting somewhere! You could also take the engine to him so he can check it with his shop tools being handy.

I would have had him look into it a while back but he is also a union carpenter and works out of state most of the time. Assuming the 2165 isn't gonna break down on me, I can afford to wait for him this time.