Getting 1250 back into good condition
 

Started getting the 1250 back into a good working order today. Got her into my small shop and pulled the engine. I had 2 bolts missing from the right side of the oil pan. Other than that, nothing else was much of a surprise. Going to do the cradle mod and see the condition of the pan to determine what is needed next. Going to go with solid mounts. I think the driveshaft couplers are due. I have grease oozing out of the steering box. What do I need to get it back into good shape? It has a bit of play in it but nothing ii would consider excessive. I don't feel any play in the axle pivot. I think I may need a new head gasket or is this normal for a 40 year old Kohler?

One more question.

I thought ii read somewhere that if the dipstick iis on top of the Kohler then it doesn't have balance gears. Can someone confirm this?

The quiet line engines did not have balance gears

I'd replace that head gasket and flatten the head.

That is normal for a 40 yr old Kohler that has a warped head and in need of a gasket. Be sure to sand the head flat on a piece of glass before reinstalling it.

No balance gears in that engine.

Gotta take the steering gear apart and inspect the pieces, be sure to consult a good exploded view of the the steering gear and inspect the cups closely.

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Please mention anything else that should be done while I am at this stage!

Did some frame cleaning this week and pulled the body off today. Footpads were a pain but got them off. Decided I might refresh the paint while its apart. This would be going full steam right now but I am also in the middle of 2 home remodles and Cub is at the weekend house. It makes a good escape from drywalling when the wife is not with me. ;0)

Wow Zipper, a 1250 with dual hydraulics, great deal! Looks like you’re getting’ it cleaned up nice.:beerchug:

If the oil pan threads are sloppy you can helicoil it like this;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...&postcount=168

But if its damaged from rubbing on the frame rails you might look for a cast pan to replace it.

Oil pan gasket part # 235353-S

Pull the head and plane like others have said. Check out olds45512 video on that;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...95&postcount=1

De carbon the head, piston top, valves and lifter galley;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...223#post338223

head gasket, stock, 10 - 14 HP (part # KH-47-041-15-S)

Rebuild the carb;

http://mgonitzke.net16.net/tools/carb_rebuild.pdf

carb rebuild kit (part # 25 757 02-S)

Check the ball bushings at the engine drive coupling and at the transmission input yoke to see how much play there is in relation to the drive shaft ends. If either is to sloppy you may need to replace them and or you driveshaft. Jeff in PA can set you up with the solid motor mounts, drive shaft and the ball bushings if you need.

Get a set of new Points Kohler (part # 47 150 03-S)

And set the timing using the static method;

http://mgonitzke.net16.net/tools/static_timing.pdf

Make a steering wheel puller;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...647#post362647

And upgrade your steering;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...639#post361639

Sorry, that's all I got for now..:biggrin2:

Have fun! (drywall sucks)

the 301 aqs engine HAS balance gears. all the QL engines I have rebuilt have had them in but are removed in the rebuild

Took head off engine. I think the piston looks good!!! Let's see if anyone else disagrees.

Thanks TwoTon! I love having all the links in this thread. Super helpful for anyone searching! Your a great asset to the site. Read through your long, long thread the other night. Picked up a bit here and there from it. It shows how fast someone can go from a mild fix to a complete restoration!

OK, this sucks! I have 1 vote that it has balance gears and 1 that says it doesn't... UUGGRRHHGG!!! Which is it? Let me add serial number. 7425521. K301AQS. Spec 47581d

The pan does had a very minor amount of contact at the cradle points but I couldn't tell a difference in it from the side that still had the bolts. Only it was shiny. I think this may have been the perfect time to pull the engine and address the cradle.

Good luck with the repairs. Certainly a wealth of knowledge on this site.

Here is a link to the manual for the K301 engine

Owners
http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinec...1346_c_all.pdf

Service
http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinec...df/tp_2379.pdf

Perhaps it can help figuring out if there are balance gears.

No balance gears in an AQS engine. Don't believe me? I don't care. Look it up yourself.
http://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/AR...______________

They guy who says they have them likely had a machine someone had already messed with.



You can't tell much about the condition of a piston from the top like that. Damage is most always on the side, where you can't see until it is removed. Don't get excited.... leave it in there. Roll the piston down in the hole and lest see a pic of the cylinder. More can be observed from the cylinder than the top of the piston.

Pretty nasty in there. Head gasket was blown... and it was sucking oil up. It's likely worn out, but clean it up and put it back together and see if it burns oil. May run a few more years. Not really much to tell with a blown gasket and the carbon gunked up like that.

How long have you owned this machine?? You don't say. :bigthink:

Thanks Jonathan! I believe you!!!

I just bought it. The hour meter works and say 450. I am assuming that is a possible 950. It was owned by 2 previous owners. Last owner had it for about 5 years and only plowed with it. Seems to be in good condition for 40 years. Better than my 1990 Deere.

Cylinder walls seem nice and shiny all around. Not sure how well it shows in the pictures. Getting a picture of a cylinder wall is like trying to get a good picture of a toddler... Lol

Yeah, cylinder walls are had to get a pic of. I think I can see hatch marks on them still. They should be shiny.... kind of. If they are too shiny, they're shot. Should be kind of hazy (best way I can describe it). Should still be able to see hatch marks. If you can't, they're wore out. Even if you can, it may still be wore pretty bad, but not usually.

I will take that advise and go back out tomorrow. They very well may be TOO shiny.

Thank you!!!

Clean the carbon off the top of the cylinder. Once it's clear, see if it has a lip wore out of the cylinder. I'm sure it will, but how bad...??

read page 11.11 in the kohler service manual "most k321 and k341 k series engines have balance gears. some k321 and k301 engines are equipped with a balance gear system" looks like you have a 50/50 shot that they are in there

Nix, buddy, yes some of the K321 and K341'see had balance gears. But NONE of the AQS motors did.

well i must have something special then.both my 1250 and 1650 had them in there.both tractor were purchased from the dealership my dad worked for as a mechanic for forty+ years.he did all the service on them and never replaced an engine in them just valve jobs and rings

I suppose some of the early ones could have still had them.

built in august and november of 1976

I can see hatching on the cylinder walls! It is a bit hazy also. Only markings on piston that I can find is 235802. I cannot feel a lip at all at the top of the cylinder. There is a faint yellow paint pen marking next to the head. 4XXX. Wondering if this could be a machie shop marking to identify block. Maybe it has had a overhaul at some point. I original owner had passed away and his brother sold it to the guy I got it from.

Is it possible this has been rebuilt and the head bolts were never re-checked? They were not hard at all to take off. Not loose but not locked down super tight. Maybe I should get new head bolts before putting iit back together.

It is going to be down for a few weeks with everything else I have going on. I want to refreshen the paint during this time.

In the original pictures it showed the common tarry black on the fins. Is this oil or carbon? If it is oil, should I at least get new rings? I am really tight with the budgets right now so I am trying to keep this to a minimum iif possible.

On air cooled engines it never hurts to carefully run a tap in the block to clean up the threads. Don't know what the book says about using head bolts over, couldn't hurt to change them--use quality bolts though. If money is tight, I'd clean up the head (face it) and top of the piston, get a new gasket and put it back together, maybe with new bolts (at least clean the old ones and run a tap in the block). You'll have less than $25 in that compared to Lord only knows what if you open the engine up. The way I see it, when you open an engine up you have to be prepared financially for everything to be junk--meaning block bored, crank turned, valve guides, new valves, facing head, new piston and rod. At least with the Kohlers you can usually use the crank bearings over.
By the way, run a putty knife over top of the piston and see if you see the size--STD, .010, etc.

I did get the carbon cleaned up good except ii need to get a wire brush to get around the valve grooves. For some reason mine have all disappeared. Lol

There is no other stamping on the piston that I can see. My job is looking for these and while once in a rare instance, they can go unnoticed when painted over, this one would have to be completely hidden for me not to see it.

Yeah, I want to open the pan and then I don't. I just know if I do I won't just stop there. Already pricing head gasket versus full gasket kit versus gasket kit with piston and rings to the one with a crank... I just keep saying, it only a bit more... :0)

Other than the carbon, everything seems to look good. I realise you cannot judge a book buy it cover.

Do all these engines pack up with dirt so badly? Mine looks like a dozer coming in for cleaning after a long season of work. :0)

Last weekend I sanded and painted the body tub. Soon I will get the frame and rear degreased and spray them.

My welder friend wanted the cradle this weekend so I opened up the block tonight. I think everything looks good inside. No major wear that I can see.

NO BALANCE GEARS! So I guess that answers that! BTW, it's a 1976 engine. I think it also means a upper dipstick would be in the way if it did have them.

I will post a couple pics from inside the block. Speak up if you see any concerns please!

I guess you don't really know much about engines. Not really anything to look at under the pan as far as wear. The rod and crank could be shot and you wouldn't be able to see it. Unless you plan to go further, button it back up. All your doing is creating potential leaks by taking it apart just to explore.

There is no "body tub" on a tractor. No idea what part you were referring to.

In the post above this last one, you talk about looking for some marks or something.... you talk about them being painted over. If you were looking for marks on the piston, pistons are never painted. The size will be stamped into it, unless it's an aftermarket piston and it's standard. Then it may not have any markings, but that's not usually the case. I'd say you just don't know what to look for.

Pics help.....

Johnathan,

took the pan off so we had it as reference to do the cradle mod. I didn't remove it "just to explore".

I may not have written the paint statement fully enough. At work I have to identity part assemblies. During manufacturing they are often heavily painted for preservation during storage. When we receive these parts they can be unknown and I am the one responsible for identification before they can be sold to the customer. There was no " paint" on the piston. The only identifying marking is a 235802 stamped offset from the middle of the piston. Nowhere on it was STD stamped. I was hoping that yourself or someone else would know what that stamping meant.

A previous post or yours on this thread also indicated "i would find see if it has a lip wore out of the cylinder. I'm sure it will, but how bad...??". I replied that there was not a noticeable lip at all in the cylinder wall but had no response from you. You and Nix turned the thread into a battle over balance gears. Opening the pan has ended that one.

When I said body tub I meant the fender pan. Here in the northwest we would cal that a tub or a body just like on a jeep.

As far as my knowledge of engines goes, this is the first time I have ever opened a small engine up. I am very capable of working on things but need a bit of guidance and understanding first, and that is why I am here. The experience on this forum is vast and extremely helpful for people venturing into new things.

There is so much information here that it sometimes gives you overload. Just like the balance gears on this thread. I appreciated Nix for telling me I had a 50/50 chance. I also appreciated you telling me I didn't. What becomes very unhelpful is slamming people over this kind of stuff. Google links to so many threads here. When searching for cub information online, this forum is probably the first hit. It reads really bad to someone not familiar to your comments and makes the forum look very hostile and unfriendly. Please try to remember that you have a very big presence here as you post more than most. You are a ambassador here with a great deal of knowledge and I am sure it is very appreciated. This forum is here for people to ask questions because they are unsure. Yes, sometimes they are absolutely ridiculous in nature, but to them they don't have this knowledge yet and are looking to learn. A teacher is the most valuable asset to any society. In order for them to teach, they have to have someone lookin up to them with respect.

Correct. The k321aqs in my 1450 had them until I removed them. My first 1450 did not have balance gears. But to say the Quiet Line aqs engines never came with balance gears is a very false statement.

Its likely a part number. No way to look it up, as the piston itself isn't called out alone. A new piston comes with a wrist pin and clips. (Example) Kohler has part numbers for each of those parts, but then combines them in a kit. So, the aluminum piston itself has a part number, but not one that you can really reference easily. May of may not be Kohler, but Kohler most always stamps their pistons.



Not sure what it is you want to know or are asking. A worn cylinder will have a lip at the top where the rings stop. If you say your engine doesn't have one, then it isn't wore very bad.



Ok. Well, on a tractor it's called a fender pan. A body tub is on a Jeep. I'm familiar with Jeep (or automotive terms), but this is a tractor. It has a fender pan. It has hoods and side panels too, but no rocker panels. It has nothing to do with your location. A Jeep has a tub no matter where you are, and a tractor has a fender no matter where you are. :beerchug:



I teacher's job is to teach. It's not my job to gain your respect. I have the information, and I am happy to share it. However, anymore, my patience is short with low information people. I don't like to begin with "Engines 101" 700 times a year with people on here. If I decide you have some basic knowledge and are willing to learn, I shell out info. If not, I move on and let someone else start at the beginning.

Let me tell you a story. My instructor in college was a great mechanic. He was also a real hard a$$ and most everyone hated him. My class was the largest he ever had of around 24 students. Twice the size of average enrollment for that course. I think there are 4 of us who still turn wrenches. Most all quit within a few years. Why? Well, honestly most of them didn't have the gift. The instructor only taught to the higher level students. You had to keep up. Did that make him a bad teacher? I don't think so. The "bad" mechanics fell out, and the "good" ones are still at it. And ALL 4 of us were successful, either owning a business, or managing shops for someone else. We were the top of the class.
Story 2: My first job as a mechanic was for a local shop where I was going to college. I hadn't even graduated yet. The owner of that shop made my college instructor look like a puppy dog. He swore at us a lot, told us we we didn't know anything, smoked like 3 packs a day..... BUT..... he was one of the best mechanics I ever knew. (The list only has a few people on it.) Although he told us we didn't know anything, he also would tell us what we didn't know, and make sure we understood. (We, as in my to be best friend. We met in college and worked our first job together. We are still very close friends and both still mechanics.) He taught us more than we will ever remember.... and we made him a lot of money, because he taught us well.

Being a teacher isn't about coddling, or even connection. It's as much up to the student to be willing to learn. No matter what the delivery was, we always knew Cook would teach us how to do a job right. It wasn't always fun being berated by him.... but we also knew he liked us, which helped. Guess those two men gave me a chunk of my personality.

Mr Zipper Honesty is a great quality! Just for telling the truth about your level of experience with small engine you deserve the respect of everyone.

There is one thing I don't understand in your previous statement, you said it was the first time you work on small engine, can we presume you have work on bigger engine before? If so have you ever check the cylinder bore of your previous job? Even if no major damage is visible on the cylinder wall you always need to check the bore no matter what size of engine you work on period.

You can spend $50 on a cheap .001 2"-6" Dial bore gauge who still need to be adjust with another precision tool before you use it or you can use a set of telescoping gauges and a cheap caliper. No matter which method you choose, the human eye can't beat that.
Good luck with your 1250 restoring job.:beerchug:

Zipper, Enjoying your thread and happy to see your progress, keep it up!:beerchug: You'll be fine with the oil pan, just make sure to get both mating surfaces clean. I used a very light coat of the stay soft gasket sealant on both surfaces, new gasket and no problems.

Hey Zipper, looking for an update.:bigthink:

Same here. :beerchug: