1864 cleanup, test drive, and leak found
 

It was a beauty of a day here yesterday so I tore down my "new" 1864 to clean the funk and grease out of the engine airways and bay. I've never seen so many pine needles in one place! Anyway. I cleaned it all out and put it back together. I went and tested mowing in my field and it ran pretty sweet. But every once in a while I saw puffs of smoke. I left the hood and muffler heat shield off for the test drive. At first I thought it was from the exhaust and I got worried. But it wasn't from there. It looks like there is oil oozing out at the governor shaft area and dripping down from it and the fan air is blowing the droplets onto the muffler and causing the puffs of smoke. I probably didn't see this before because of the jammed up air flow. Is that an engine teardown project to replace seals?
:popcorn:

It's possible that your leak is from the Governor shaft but I doubt it. The CH has a couple more likely sources of leaks. 1st on my list is valve covers, then head gaskets and then crank seals. The 1864 I picked up a few months ago was doing the same thing as yours is. 2 leaking valve covers and the flywheel end crank seal. The blower is great at blowing the oil onto the muffler. Makes bad smoke LOL. I strongly suggest that you download the service manual from Kohler. If you have not pulled the engine, removed the tins and cleaned it this is what you may find.

Kohler Command valve covers on early ones would get warped and leak. I never found any way to seal them up so they wouldn't. I guess Kohler didn't either as they have released new level valve covers to stop the leak problem. See your dealer. They're not too expensive if this is your problem.

Be careful with the valve cover bolts. They have a shoulder on them so you only tighten them till they are snug. Lots of people twist them off thinking that they need to lean on them to stop the leaks then you have a PITA trying to drill them out. I had 2 broken off on the 1864 I picked up.

1864
 

Holy crud Sam. That old engine will love you when your done cleaning it up!


Mike

It's all cleaned up and living in it's semi retirement home. It now resides in MaMa's JD mulch hauler. Probably wont see more that 5 hours a year of run time. :beerchug:

I think I can see that the covers may be warped. But I don't know that the oil is coming from that area. I guess I will have to really rip it down to see. I was hoping I would have to go that deep.

You'll be amazed at how well the blower distributes oil, ask me how I know. :biggrin2:

I believe you but I don't see any wetness in the area behind where this puddle is forming. Here's a picture of what I mean.
Attachment 83415

I'm going to find the manual for this thing and see what I'm looking at, if I have to pull the motor I might as well replace seals and gaskets while I'm at it. I was thinking the valve covers looked warped a little but on closer inspection it looks like they have a shape to them where they are thicker at the edge in the middle than nearer the bolts. I don't have any experience with these Kohlers. Only Briggs, verticals and vanguard v twins and the older K series kohlers.

For some reason my picture is upside down. The original is right side up. :BangPC:

Fixed your pic. Plan on pulling that. If the Gov shaft is leaking that is not the only leak.

Thanks for fixing that.

I've already planned to pull it and tear it down and replace seals and gaskets. I ordered a genuine Kohler gasket and seal kit, and a tune up kit for it. I just hope it doesn't bite me in the rear when I get inside and find any damage or excessive wear. There is no smoke from the exhaust and it runs nice and smooth, so I don't anticipate anything at this point. The muffler bolts look a little scary.

:Pray:

I better start soaking them with rust penetrant.

You probably don't need a complete gasket kit. I could see maybe head gaskets, valve cover seals, crank seals, intake gaskets and exhaust gaskets. For what it's worth I use Permatex Ultra Copper instead of exhaust gaskets, if it's good enough for Nascar Cup engine headers it's good enough for a mower engine. Soak the exhaust nuts, they are a Major PITA on the CH's

Agreed, I just took the exhaust off my ch20 and even with the engine out and on the bench just getting to the inside nuts is a bit of a challenge. I used an open end wrench and patience as you can only get about 1/8 of a turn each time.

I bent up a special wrench just to get to the hard to get nuts.

I decided to order the kit, I may not need all of it, but it wasn't that must more expensive than picking and choosing what I might need, and I'd rather have too many gaskets and seals than not enough. I don't have it pulled yet to take apart but to minimize the chances of parts getting lost or forgotten where they go, I like to have everything on hand when I do the job so I can put it all right back together at the same time.

Well, I started the disassembly, it's not as bad as I thought.
Attachment 83432

Sams picures definitely looked worse. Mostly oil soaked and dirt. I don't see any grass in there. Definitely needs a mag end seal. I don't think the wetness down from the crank transferred up to the top by the governor seal. So I think I probably can get by with just gaskets and seals being replaced and not have to crack her open and replace head gaskets, valve seals, etc. Or, if I'm this far in and have the parts should I just do it?

If it were me and that far into it, I would replace the head gaskets without blinking an eye.

I have had a number of Vanguard and Commands in my possion in the last couple of years that have had the fins packed full of dirt, grass, oil and other debris and they also had leaking head gaskets.

You, of course, are free to do as you please but when those engines run hot, in my experience they get hot enough to start the head gaskets leaking.

Leaking head gaskets show up in a number of ways. Engine smoking, engine burning oil, runs lean to the point the choke needs to stay on, etc. Your choice.

You should give it a bath an determine where the leaks are occurring, run it an see if there are leakages in areas you cannot see.

That's kind of the way I'm leaning too. It isn't showing those signs but I might as well do it since I'll have them.

Well I went for it and got it totally torn down to the block. The cylinder bores look good, there's even still some crosshatch in there and they feel good. No lips or anything. There is a little bit of wiggle to the pistons in the bore when I push hard on the sides. Is that normal? Everything else looks good.

Do you know how many hours are on the engine?

Hour meter has just over 1000 hours. I'm not the original owner so I don't know if it's the original motor or the history of it.

I'm reading up on this. It's very slight movement, and I think this is normal. I don't have anything to measure bore size or anything.

I was just wondering how long the cross hatch lasts on the cylinder walls.

Richard I have a ch20 apart that has about 1500 hrs on it and can see just a little crosshatch on the walls so they can last a long time.

I read somewhere that the cylinders are so hard that most of the time a rebuild is just pistons and rings because they wear out before the cylinder wall.

I made some progress today on degreasing this thing. I got most of the loose stuff off and now it's cleaned down to the baked on stuff. I guess I'll have to hit it with a toothbrush to make it sparkle.

Attachment 83547
Attachment 83548

Looks good to me. :beerchug:

Consider pulling the starter apart to clean, check and lube. Check brushes.

Soooo... I pushed the tractor out of the garage to degrease the front end and frame with my degreaser wand for my air compressor. And I noticed a slippery puddle under the rear. I degreased that area a few weeks ago. It looks like it's coming from up behind the frame, on the right side looking at it from the rear and dripping down over the bolts that hold the axle tube on. Are there seals or gaskets up in there that can be replaced as well?

Post a pic of the leak. I'm thinking your talking about the bolts that hold the rear in the frame. If that's the case just drain the rear, pull the bolts and put some Permatex #3 on them. Do 1 bolt at a time.

Here they are. This was cleaned up and it's already gunked up. I guess there's something to be said about dirt and grime hiding leaks.

Attachment 83582Attachment 83583

Once again I asked a question before really researching it. So those bolts go all the way through? I found a post on another forum about this issue with an 1863. I just changed it two weeks ago, if I drain into a clean container can it be reused? Iguess that'll be next. I'll be reassembling the motor tomorrow night and once that's done I'll move to the rear end and check those bolts out.

Is this the 1641?

No, the 1864.

OK, 1864 could be leaking from the cork gasket between the pump and the transmission. It could be leaking from the 2 relief valves on the pump. It could be the rear cover and it could be the bolts that go through the frame and axle tubes, yes they go all the way through into the case. Plan on removing the fender pan and gas tank and giving it a good cleaning. They can also leak from the axle seals but then you would see oil dripping from the back side of the disk brakes. Reality is you have a 20+ year old tractor and all of this stuff is due about this time, ask me how I know. You probably wont need to get this involved but take a look at this thread.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=21261

Be sure your dipstick tube is tight also.

I will investigate it more with more pictures after I get the front end back together. That's a neat tool you have for removing that deck. Do they have those at Harbor Freight? :beerchug:

Ok, new question. I received my gasket kit today, and took inventory of it. I noticed it has valve cover gaskets that are o'ring style. I did some looking on the google machine and found that they go in valve covers that have a grove. Mine do not have a groove, they had flat gaskets. I don't see valve cover flat gaskets anywhere (yet) for this. Am I going to have to do a valve cover swap now too?