The "189" - one piece at a time 149 conversion
 

Well, I teased this idea a week or so ago and I had my doubts about doing it, but decided to give it a try. I have the engine already and lots of extra parts from other tractors so I haven't spent an additional penny yet. I'm very surprised with the fairly interchangable parts between the years of tractors. In order to use the CH18 in the 149 I needed to use a rear mounted gas tank which I had from a 1641 carcass. This requires the use of the fender deck also which fits almost perfectly on the 149 frame. I will post more pictures and stuff as this project continues.

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Here's the "189" with the engine in and the 1641 fender and gas tank sitting on the frame. I had to cut the frame for the starter to fit, I should build a bump out to the frame to restore integrity... agree?

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Here's the driveshaft setup, I got the idea from a post SamMac made a while back using a 2185 driveshaft. For now I used a snowblower shear bolt instead of the pin in the original driveshaft.

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The engine is mounted to a 1641 engine mounting plate without spacers to get the engine low enough to line up with the driveshaft. I nipped for the ears that are closest to the dash tower because they hit the frame and won't let the engine sit properly. Two of the holes lined up perfectly with frame holes over the front axle that were already there and I had to drill two new holes for the other two mounting bolts for the engine plate. Here it is all mounted up.

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I am able to use the mule drive off the 1641 for the newer style decks, so I can use my GT48 and GT54 deck on this tractor by swapping the bar that releases the mule drive in the front (not sure what it's called but it swapped and fit perfectly).

I ordered a muffler for an 1864 which will fit in there behind the grille. The only thing I have to do yet is wire it up and put some finishing touches on some things. And build a battery box in the dash where the gas tank used to be.

More to come....

That is going to be cool. Classic looks with modern power and smoothness. I also have been surprised how interchangeable the parts are on the cubs. When I built my 1872 with the EFI command engine I used a 1864 seat pan fenders and fuel tank. With a set of risers from a 2882 it all bolted together on the super frame. If you have the front axle and power steering from the tractor the CH-18 came from they would also be pretty much a bolt in. I used a 1864 PS set up in my 1650 loader tractor. If you want you could cut a section of the 1641 frame and blend it into the 149 frame to reinforce it. Done right most would never notice. Keep up the great work.:beerchug:
Tom

The engine came from a 2185 so no power steering. The steering feels pretty good as is actually.

Pretty cool project. I definitely would reinforce the frame around the starter. I have the same driveshaft modification in my 149 to eliminate the rag joint. I think you may want to consider welding the union in the two shaft after your test fit and trial period. I don't believe a shear bolt will take the torque of the CH18 for very long.

The shear pin bolt is temporary. It was the only thing I had handy to fit in the hole to hold it together for testing, I am making sure everything fits before I fasten anything permanently. I don't know if there will be much force on that area of the frame since there's another steel piece in there (the 1641 engine plate) that will distribute the force more than just mounting the engine to the frame. I probably will build out the frame around it just for looks at least, and for comfort just in case.

This evening I had some time to work on the rig. I fabbed up a battery tray out of the two gas tank brackets and a piece of thick sheet metal for a bottom. I drilled new holes to get it low enough for the battery terminals to clear the hood. Problem is I can only use the smaller lawn and garden battery, not the big one like my 1864 uses. TSC has a 460CCA lawn and garden battery that will fit and hopefully have enough juice to spin the Kohler.

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The TSC battery you have will start the 18 hp command fine . The battery I have in my 1872 with a 28 hp command is about the same size and it starts it just fine. I have had a 385 cc battery in my 782 with a 20 hp command for three years and it has always started it without issue. Good luck with the project.
Tom

That's a Walmart EverStart battery in the picture, and it's spent... it wont turn anything. :biggrin2: I am just using it for size. When I got my 1864 it didn't have a battery and I tried a battery like this one, a lawn and garden 230CCA and it barely cranked the engine. I went and got the right size battery for the 1864 tray (more like a car battery) and it's like 565CCA or something if I remember and it turns the engine with ease. So I think (hope) a 320 or 460 will be fine. I'll probably just go with the 460 because I don't want to risk it being under-powered.

More progress. I got the muffler in, it's not perfect condition but workable. Rather than cutting the hood around the valve cover I decided to flair it a little bit more to get the clearance I needed between it and the hood. It worked pretty well. I will smooth out the flair at some point in this project. My plan is to get everything fitted and then take it back apart for paint.
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One problem I see that I will have to deal with is the PTO pulley is too close to the bottom part of the lower grille. The picture looks worse than it really is, There's about 1/2" between it and the grill, but I don't think I will be able to get a 5/8" belt in there for obvious reasons.
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So I think as a workaround, I can cut that lip back where the belt will sit, about 1/4" to get the room I need to slide a belt in and out. It will still be behind the grill material, I plan to use some steel grill that won't be susceptible to heat. The muffler is also pretty close, but I think it'll work. I will have to make a custom heat shield to go around it which looks like it'll be pretty easy to make one out of sheet metal.

:beerchug:

Going to have to move the mule drive pulleys forward also.

I don't know if I will, I don't have the pulleys in that mule yet but I held the arms in place where they would be and I tried to visualize how it will look and I think it will be fine. We'll see.. The alignment and clearance looks a bit misleading in the pictures because the cast iron grill frame has that lip that sticks back toward the engine. The PTO pulley isn't that close to the front of the frame. I was actually more concerned the PTO pulley would be too far back actually. I'll report back on this once I have that part put together. I still have some wiggle room to move the engine either direction if I would need to.

That's a cyclops mule in it, so it'll have the 5/8" pulleys, and I have a hanger for 48"/54" decks. If I have clearance issues with the deck because of the front axle being lower, I have a cyclops axle I could use that looks like it'll fit, or I could just go with taller tires on the front. The front tires on it are tiny, so that's making it look lower than it should be I think. I'll see how that all works out when I get that far.

I believe you're going to have to put a Cyclops front axle on if you want to use the 48"/54" GT decks as they are larger than previous decks. The axle on the Cyclops can accommodate them because they have a swept forward design to allow for the bigger decks.

Yeah that's one of my concerns too. I'm hoping to make some progress on this this weekend, but picnics... I have the cyclops axle but no wheels for it. :bigthink:

Just a thought, maybe it would have been easier to adapt the 149 parts, hood, grill, dash tower, ect ect.to the 1864....:bigthink:

I had the transmission and engine into the 1641 frame first, but the spread frame is wider for the grille so I would have had issues there and had to fabricate something to mount the grille to, and it's lower in the front so I would have had issues with the alignment issues with the hood. Also a stumbling block was going to be the deck height adjustment. I want to use a lift and sleeve hitch on it, so I wouldn't be able to put the rear hitch plate on it, so I wouldn't have that rear plate for the height adjust. Another issue was going to be the hydro plumbing for the deck lift. I would have had to re-plumb all of that. It's not completely out of the question at this point, but I decided to go back to the 149 frame and try it for now. The easiest path would have been to use the 1641 frame with the plastic hood and all that but then I would just have a cyclops with cast iron rear. What's the fun in that? :biggrin2:

Putting a sleeve hitch on the 1641 and still have the height control would have been easy. Dash tower would have bolted on with very little modification and you could have used all the hydraulics off the 149. Simple spacer for under the grille shell....

I agree with Lew. I kinda think you went the long way around the block to achieve the same end result.... and you don't have it done yet.

That may be, but this is the way I went with it after weighing the options. How could I use the 149 hydro ram? It's a much longer stroke than the 1641. Even if I drill new holes to mount the bracket, I don't see it working with the rock shaft. I would have to swap all that over too. The grill shell is about 2" smaller than the frame of the 1641 so I would need a mounting plate to bolt to the original holes and sit the grill shell on that to bolt tight.

Like I said, I can always try going with the 1641 frame again. But after looking things over I thought it would be easier to do with the 149 frame in the end.

You would use the cylinder that is already on the 1641....
Why on earth would you swap it?

It's a different fitting. So I would need to adapt it.

Yeah.... so what? You can make a new hydraulic hose. That's a whopping $13. Maybe $26 for 2 of them.

If you are really really tight, you might just be able to put a new fitting on the hoses from the 149, if they are long enough.

What do you suggest for a rear hitch setup with the deck height adjustment? Getting a three point for cyclops is not an option for me, too expensive. I was looking to mount it to the cast iron rear with the hitch bracket, rock shaft and lift arm setup for wide frames.

A heavy piece of angle iron bolted to the frame. Just like the bracket used on a spring assist. I'd probably make it long enough to use two bolts, and gusset the sides.

:bigthink: I'll look into that. Thanks.

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A thought of something like that popped into my mind actually.

Yep.
Pretty simple huh.

Well, simple that is. I sometimes (read: most times) get into a project and can't see the forest for the trees, and do things the harder way but eventually it turns out OK. (remember my 1864 rear end leak?) I'm too far this way now, so I'm not going to go back the other way at this point unless I hit a snag that I can't work out.

As luck would have it, I ran into a 682 this morning with a 50C deck this morning quite cheap. The engine is a mosquito fogger, so it's a perfect candidate for a CH18s and a cast iron rear end for a worker tractor. I'm going to look it over some more before I do anything, but the "189" project may be dead.

Depending when it was made, it may already have a cast iron rear.
FWIW, even if it's a "worker" you don't need a CI rear. My main two traces are a 1050 and an 1811. Both with sleeve hitch, both with AL rears.

It's definitely not cast iron, its an aluminum rear just like my 1864 has.

Also, the 149 is about 4" lower in the front than my 1864, so the clearance height for the GT deck isn't going to work. I thought I could just swap over the mule and get it to work. I would have to swap over the axle from the cyclops and raise that front end up, and then I think it will look funny. I jacked it up in the front to simulate the height and the hood leans toward the back (the front is higher than the back of the hood). So sadly, it's not going to work out how I hoped. The 682 now, that has more potential. DeltaCub had the best advice in my thread about thinking about doing this, that it would be easier getting a 782 and put this engine in it. It's a 682 but I have all the hydraulics already to convert it. I'll just have to make some of those $13 hydro lines to plumb it all up. :biggrin2:

Sounds like a better idea. (Using the 682 and making it a 7.) :beerchug:



You will get it all done and then find a 782 for sale with a bad motor, lol.