Need advice on pulling
 

I bought a 1200 with the intent to build a stock puller. ive read all I can on the net but Im lost on where to start.at my local pullers say theres no one pulling stock only hot stock. I have a 341 magnum that I bought with the tractor. I have some boys that want to try pulling and would like to get them a couple of tractors. where is the best place to get info on building a puller? would a stock rear end and motor be be able to place or be competitive?

Best place to learn is from guys doing it.

Can a stocker compete against "hot stock"..... I suppose they can. Just not likely competitively. Everyone wants to get into pulling when their kids want to do it, not knowing how competitive a sport is really is. If you want to compete and be competitive, you're going to spend some money. Get ready.

As far as the rear end goes, stock will hold up to quite a bit of mods, but it's the gearing speed that may be an issue. Not to worry, Midwest Super Cub sells lots of parts to make it go faster. :biggrin2:

As far as your choice of tractor.... if you're just getting starter in the sport, look for a narrow frame tractor, or at the least a 1X9 tractor, to start with. That QL will need a lot of mods to the engine mounting system to make it work well. Only nice thing is it has a tunnel cover to make easy access to the driveline that will need beefed up to hold up to pulling.

I know its like most sports it takes money to compete.i own 7 cub cadet already and ive got the basic down but theres a lot to learn in the pulling . theirs a lot of good information on here. would anyone know of a good engine builder near east tn ?

Most all the engine builders are in the midwest. Ohio, Illinois, Iowa.... I think there is a guy in North Carolina, but don't know his name. Just *thinking* there is a guy out there.

if they offer a stock class even if no one pulls it start there. if the kids like it start jumping up a class then maybe build towards it. you do need wheelie bars , draw bar , kill switch and weight frames no matter which class you run , get a feel for it and decide if you want to do more

that's good advice. im trying to build the 1200 to pull . the boys have other cubs to play with. my 11 year old mowed the yard today with a 1250 and said he loved it. I have a kohler m16 I got from a puller who started trying to mount it in a narrow frame. he had removed the head and oil pan ,flywheel,bearing plate.now I have to try and get the missing parts rounded up.

A Mag motor isn't a good choice. Point ignition has easily adjustable timing, which you will need to get the most out of your motor. Need to find a K series motor.

Mag engine isn't a horrible choice depending on how much you plan to modify it. Once you go so far with modifications it's best to use a crank trigger ignition setup. However for stock class points ignition is definitely preferred.

I bought the motor and it dont have any ignition parts with it so I thought I would use mwsc trigger ignition. I also need the correct carb for it also.

check with your club if they will let you run a crank trigger before you buy one

good idea. I hadn't thought about it from that angle. I found 2 13 fins for sale today.are they worth 200 for a bare block?

You sure that block has the right base to fit a CC? The 13 fin blocks were an early block, and only the CC 169 had them from the factory.... and that's the second most rare Cub. Make sure the block will accept the CC oil pan.

Yeah.... $200 is about what they go for. I usually look for whole motors for sale that don't run. You can usually get a complete motor for $200 or less. But if it is a 13 fin, that's in the ballpark.

there were no oil pans on them. bare block only but they were 13 fins. faded blue paint on one faded red on the other.i did not look to see if they were drilled for the cub oil pan.

Not really about being drilled, it's the shape of the lower end of the block.

I thought there was a different bolt pattern on some blocks but I do believe they were both narrow base blocks. i would rather find a complete engine if i could but everthing cub is hard to come by around these parts.

Guys cut the ears off those 13 fin wide base blocks and fill the voids with weld or even JB Weld.

I got two 13 fin bare blocks one narrow base and one wide base. the narrow base cc engines is bored 30 over. am I correct they can be bored larger?what would be the best way to go about building a pulling motor? im guessing a vm or mwsc crank , rod, piston assembly.

Depends. You said "stock" puller in the original thread. While all the big boys like MWSC make excellent products, it's not necessary in a beginner tractor in a stock class to go crazy with the higher dollar parts. Like Don said way back near the beginning of the thread, start small and work your way up. Motor is only about 1/3 of the set up of a pulling tractor. All the power in the world is no good unless you can get the power to the ground. Weight distribution/balance, gearing, driveline/clutch are all areas that will need to be looked at. Overbuilding wastes money, and could add unnecessary weight.

The biggest thing is, it's hard to give any advice unless we know what the rules are......
We can recommend a lot of things, but if the rules don't allow for it, then we wasted our breath.


The wide base block won't work in the CC without a lot of mods (welding and grinding).
Unless someone else makes them, .030" over is the largest overbore you can get. That's really far enough I think. I think there are some .040" over pistons out there, but not sure if there is for the 341. If it's junk at .030" over, you can sleeve it back to stock.

ok I see that vm makes a 3.812 piston. would that be better than trying to sleeve it? iim not sure if that piston could be used on stock rod and crank.

The only piston I see that VM has that is that large has a ceramic topcoat, and is a low profile piston. It costs almost as much as a standard rebuild. The largest stock piston he has is .030" over. I don't know what rod combo that is made for, or even if it will go in a stock block. I don't know if you can even bore a stock block that large. Maybe Don will chime in later and say, but I'm thinking that is for a stock altered block.

You sure seem scattered about how to build, or even rebuild a motor...... you ever done this kind of thing before? Do you have anyone helping you? Is this the only place your asking questions?

I got some help from friends but ive not built a motor from a bare block. I did find a 40 over piston from the guy you recommended on the other post. I found the information on the pin height and rod length on another web site. ive read all I can find about kohler k motors. it does seem to be limited info on building engines for pulling.

It's best if you get the pin height and rod length from the seller of the part, or the manufacturer. 3rd party websites are not reliable.

So..... did you read your rules for the club you want to pull in yet? What's your budget?

yes a 60 over is allowed in pro stock class for 16 hp. im rebuilding a stock 1200 right now. ive restored other cubs to original condition and it seems to be hard to stay in budget on a build.

You can safely bore a 13 fin block out to almost 4".
However as mentioned you will need to get the correct rod and piston combo. You also need to take the club rules into consideration.

How close to 4"? 3.900"? 3.800"? 3.999999999"??

You say a 13 fin. What about the 12 fin?

According to MWSC you can bore a k341 to 4" no problem.

Either? Or just a 13 fin?
They are different blocks.

You can bore some 241's to 301's, but not all.

mwsc has a video on kohler k blocks. I believe they recommend a head strap when the 13 is bored near 4 inch.

Yeah, gotta head strap them when you bore one that big. I've heard of guys going a far out as 4.055 on a 13 fin block. Not sure what i would risk on a 12 fin.

I have a k241 engine here that says k301 on the front, came out of a 104 I junked about 8yrs ago.

There you Tim!....get some of Sorner's left over tractor parts, put that bored out 241 with one of those turbo dealies, buzz up the RPM to about 15k... mix in nitro methane....and you can pop wheelies all day long! I should not be drinking in the afternoon! :beer2:

Yea, I think you need to lay off the sauce.:biggrin2:

https://youtu.be/G-WbYZLdxLA

some 12 fin blocks can go 4 in but you need to measure the outside of the bore between the cooling fins then center the boring bar when you bore it. some 12 fin blocks are best left around 3 7/8 to 3 15/16 .

my 13 fin is bored 30 over so ill have to go bigger. my machine shop says don't buy a piston till you see how it cleans up. the piston dealer says don't bore till you have a piston. I wish I could get the two of them to have a talk while I listen to the conversation.

You do a rough cut bore to see if it cleans up, then order a piston and do the finish bore. Common practice. Let the machine shop do their thing.

I picked up a 301 block today. he said it was bored 10 under according to kohler spec . he said buy a 10 over oem kohler piston and it will fit. he said don't buy aftermarket pistons that may or may not be the right size. don't shoot me im just the messanger?

Take it to a machine shop and have them tell you what to order. If it's already .010 over and there is any doubt the bore is good then i would order a .020 piston and have it bored.

Hi! I've been pulling over 15 years and got all my info when I started out from Brian Miller's tractor pulling tips online. It's all Cub Cadet info and went into pulling knowing nothing about pulling and his website helped me do everything! Also bought a lot of pulling parts from him. Bill

That right there will get you in trouble here.:banned:

You are about to get yelled at. :bigeyes: