882D Starter
 

Went to start the tractor up and the starter won't turn. The PO did the starter upgrade and installed a push button to engage the Bendix in conjunction with the key ignition. The Bendix push button works and throws the Bendix, but the starter doesn't turn. Fully charged battery and wire connections seem tight. Not sure where to start.

At the beginning..... I hear it's a very good place to start. :biggrin2:


Is there a brass strap (or heavy braided wire,,,,, anything) that goes from the solenoid to a stud on the starter?

Well, I don't know why a push button is needed but you need to check and see if you are getting 12VDC at the starter solenoid. If you are, throw the starter in the trash and buy this,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PREMIUM-NEW...lXBAuq&vxp=mtr

If you are getting less than 12VDC you need to check your wiring for issues.

Do you know why the po installed a push button? If the switch isn't working properly get a replacement as here.
http://www.messicks.com/part/66706-5...gnition-switch

12 volts to the starter.
 

Do not use a volt meter to check the voltage to the starter. It may show 12 volts but will not show amps. Do a voltage drop on the wires from the battery to the starter. Do not forget about the ground side.


http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

Just connect jumper cables directly from battery to starter terminal and starter mounting.
If it turns over properly, back track and see where it is loosing the power along the way.
If it doesn't turn over, then you need to address a starter motor problem.
Pretty simple diagnosis to preform.:beerchug:

Confirm you are also getting proper 12v on your crank signal circuit to the solenoid on your starter. I assume they put in push button because of an issue with the ignition switch, probably wired the push button right from the battery
+ to the solenoid on starter?. I also did the upgrade on mine but had to install a relay because ignition switch was not providing enough juice to engage the solenoid fully.

Well life got in the way, but I was finally able to get out to the shed. Here's what I found. There is a heavy gauge wire going from the + battery to the solenoid. From the solenoid, heavy wire goes to starter while smaller gauge wire goes to the ignition. Another wire runs from the starter to the push button.

I ran jumper cables from the battery to the solenoid and the push button would turn the starter, but not enough power to turn the motor over.

So to me it sounds like the starter is fine, but the PO did some crazy wiring. Is there a way to simplify and fix the problem?

I'm not sure why the PO thought the starter system need a second solenoid wired in series with the one mounted on the starter. You should have a heavy cable running from the battery positive to the solenoid mounted on the starter and one exciter wire coming from either your ignition switch (factory) or from the PO installed push button switch and going to the small terminal on the starter solenoid. No other solenoid or wiring is needed. Make sure all connections are clean and tight. A common problem on these tractors is a poor ground connection between the starter and it's mounting. The ground cable from the battery is bolted to the block near the air cleaner. I have added a separate ground cable from the battery negative to the starter mounting bolt on all my diesels to correct this. Hope this helps.

What a mess that looks like.
As diesel doctor said, one heavy gauge from battery+ to starter solenoid main lug. And one small wire- ignition/crank signal 12v source from key to spade terminal on the starter. doesn't get any more simple then that.

Wouldn't checking the voltage at the starter do the same thing while cranking?

There was a service bulletin on adding the 2nd ground wire but I can't find it right now.:angry:

***Edit***
Master Lew has it here.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=47908

You could TEMPORARILY take that out of the circuit by bolting the two heavy wires that are connected to the extra solenoid together they trying to crank the engine. INSULATE it well before you try this, but it should tell you whether the extra solenoid is contributing to the problem. (this is IF the original solenoid is still in the circuit)

It probably wont matter , since I too am leaning towards it being a grounding issue that the DPO tried to fix with a kludge.

Unless I'm missing something.... the starter in the pic appears to have a stud on the bottom that the wires are connected to. *IF* that is the case.... the starter is not the original.


If what happened is what I think happened the OP was kind of frugal.
Sounds like the solenoid on the starter had a failure on the plate that energizes the starter. The pull in function of the solenoid still worked. To solve the issue and not buy a whole new starter, he simply installed a cheap solenoid to actuate the starter motor, while the original engaged the bendix. *IF* that is the case, and the original solenoid is still present, then remove what the PO added, run the wires correctly and replace the original solenoid, or the whole stater assembly.

The way you describe the system to be wired cannot be correct, or nothing would work. I don't think you correctly following the wires. It's that or you aren't explaining it correctly, as it would NEVER have worked wired that way.

Post a better pic of the starter if you need me to confirm how things are wired.

If you're still at this, I'd suggest removing the added solenoid and associated wiring and getting the tractor back to original configuration.

Once it's back to the way it was built, see if it work and diagnose it, and repair it the right way.

I work on a fair amount of old (tube type) electronics , and I approach things the same way. Removing the "improvements" that some Dreaded Previous Owner installed often simplifies the repair process and sometimes removes the fault altogether.

Keep us posted!:biggrin2:

Has this tractor ever started for you since you purchased it from the PO?

As mentioned, some well-lit and focused shots of the wiring, starter and anything else that looks butchered would be of help.

What are the recommended gauge wires for the heavy wire from battery to starter and smaller wire from the starter to switch? TIA

6 Ga is probably heavy enough. But you can go 4. Looked like the cable in the pics you have is the right size. Match it up.

As fat as you can make them and get them safely routed. Mr Ohm never sleeps and the cranking current is hundreds of amps. If a starting system is marginal, this is a place to look.

If you suspect iffy cables or cable terminations, put a jumper cable in parallel with the existing cable and see if things improve. If they do, you're on the right track, if not, search elsewhere.

Check the ground connection again!

I think it may be the wrong ignition switch and I also found issues with the starter. New parts were delivered yesterday. I ask about wiring because I’m debating just running new wire knowing it’s all new and the connections will be done correctly.

4 solid months since you started this thread..... I figured you had it fixed by now.

How do you figure it's the wrong ignition switch?