Losing Hardware
 

So I'll start off by saying I still love my Cub. This summer has been hard on me and the Cub. I feel like she is just falling apart. I like to take care of my equipment and have done what I feel is the right maintenance. Greasing all zerks, changing oil, running pure gas with a little Marvel in it, overhauling the carb, new air filter, new Hyrdro fluid, and more. I mow/operate at a pretty low speed when working in/on the yard. I know running her fast over rough terrain is going to strain things. I have a lot of roots towards the edges of my yard. I have to traverse those at a snails pace. Again, I understand if you push equipment beyond its limits it will fail. I don't feel that I am doing that.

My main complaint is the tractor seems to be shedding all kinds of nuts and bolts left and right. I contribute this to vibrations. The engine is running fine and has all its power. I replaced the ISO motor mounts this spring with OEM new ones - all 8 of them. I thought that helped get rid of some vibrations, but I still seem to be suffering from a machine wanting to shake itself to pieces. I have not replaced the flex disc couplings. I have inspected the hardware on them and they seem to be fine, but since they are assumed to be original replacing them should help. Should I go to solid motor mounts too?

She has rattled loose the muffler twice resulting in fatigue cracking a repair done by the prior owner to a point of no return. So I replaced a muffler - those are spendy. Now my aluminum muffler shroud is all cracked up and the muffler elbow keeps coming loose. I am going to make a muffler prop to help. Replacing the aluminum shroud is a lot of money, so I am going to try TIG welding them back together at work when I get a chance. All of the tin shrouding nuts/bolts seem to want to rattle off even with lock washers and blue loctite. The loctite may not be setting fully before I operate it - so I will take some blame there.

I can't seem to keep the hood in proper adjustment and put in new hinge pins after one broke in half. I replaced them as a set. I added some automotive weather stripping around the instrument cluster where the end of the hood rests to take out some vibration/rattle. That was a great help and looks factory. The hood came loose Saturday and I was back to looking like Jed Clampett while I aerated my lawn for the final time of the year.

So, what have you guys experienced here? Anyone losing their minds over losing hardware? :bash:

Sounds like you are running a quietline. There are those here that are experts on dampening the vibrations. My guess is your motor mounts and possibly the driveline itself are the culprits. Also, what hp engine do you have--I believe I have read some of the larger engines never ran as vibration free as the smaller ones. Long story short, your hardware should stay put. Some experts will be along shortly. Post your Cadet model and engine size for them.

Thanks John. I have the rare (at least on here) 680 model with the cast iron 12hp Kohler K301 motor. I have done the mounts. I am suspecting flex disc couplings. The 680 is based on the 82 series.

I have a 1211 which is the same as your 680, I put solid engine mounts in it and I haven't had any issue with bolts loosening and breaking. I would remove the driveshaft and inspect the ends and the centering bushings, if the shaft is worn or the centering bushing has fallen out it will cause the shaft to run out of round which will cause all sorts of vibration. The flex disks just couple the parts together, they don't hold them centered.

Thanks Olds! I will take the drive-line apart and inspect. I am taking the mower deck off in preparation for the coming white stuff; so I'll be able to get a good line of sight on things.

So at the very least my self-aligning bearings are shot:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4545/...113fedc8_b.jpg

I will be darned if I can't get the coupling to free itself from the input shaft to the hydro trans. Any thoughts? I gave it a good charge of PB blaster and am calling it quits for tonight. I read in the service manual it should slide rear enough to take out the drive shaft, but it didn't work for me. Does it come off by tapping it forward towards the motor?


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4550/...3a36f874_z.jpg

I assume you removed the pin? You might need to remove the engine mounting bolts and slide the engine forward enough to get the shaft out of the way, once the shafts out of the way you can use a puller to get the adapter off.

Yes, I drove the spriral pin out. I will take out the engine mounting bolts tomorrow and have at it. Thanks for the good help. :beerchug:

FWIW, I'm in the middle of rebuilding the driveline in a 782. Bearings at each end shot, shaft damaged on each end, rag joints egg shaped. At least your pump coupler is tight, I've got to bore mine out and bush it back to standard.

I'm also going to throw this fact in. And anyone whom disagrees does not belong on a garden tractor. Those heavy wheel weights COULD have really loosened up driveline components. A heavy amount of wheel weight can be hard on things after a while, and not using common sense. Just saying. This is for you, and not open for disagreement.

:IH Trusted Hand:

John, thanks for your input. I can see the weights putting added strain on the driveline from moving the weight of the machine, me, and my wheel waits. My property is wet most of the year (thanks Geauga County and your clay) and before running weights and chains I would get stuck all the time. Now I never get stuck.:biggrin2: In the heat of summer I might be able to get away with no weights, but all it has to do is rain about an inch and I'm back to playing in the mud.

I do try to take it easy on the old girl and take off slowly building up speed. She never seams to really complain. I am thinking most of the damage was already in process prior to me purchasing my 680.

What are others doing who have to run weight for traction aids? Is it preferred to run AG tires?

I would just continue to run the weights and not worry about it, it's taken 33yrs to get to this point so if you rebuild the driveline properly then it should last another 33. I would think the tire spinning and then suddenly grabbing would be worse for the driveline than the weights will ever be. This is for you and not open for disagreement.:biggrin2:

Never said a word about removing wheel weights. My question was whether or not the wheel weights were causing any driveline vibrations, because it's been known to happen. At least you're not getting stuck. Nice set up, btw!

Yea, and I was thinking any sudden slow down, or quick accelerations. But he "thinks" some of the vibration damage was done before he got the tractor. I know if I had more IH wheel weights, I would surly be using them!

Plus, I was trying to shake up Jon a little, but he won't budge! lol! :biggrin2:

Got the driveshaft and all associated components off tonight. She needs a new shaft coupling assembly on the engine side, a new drive shaft (deep grooves worn on both ends), self-aligning bearing (I knew that yesterday), new fan (missing one of the blades since I got it), and 4 rag joints (2 on each end). Going to spend a little, but I have no problem with that if the girl goes another 30 years.

Pictures for those interested:

Drive Shaft
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4529/...7ef64bf7_o.jpg

Shaft Coupling Flange (engine side)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4535/...25881c39a9.jpg

Nuts from rag joints on motor end. They are ovaled out :bigeyes:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4535/...456324d690.jpg

Some damage to the back of the motor where the flange connects. I don't think its anything to worry about since I am replacing the whole flange assembly...
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4517/...f006e34bf1.jpg

Ouch! If that don't make it shake nothing will. The nuts are lock nuts and are supposed to look like that, DO NOT reuse them, go buy new nylon lock nuts.

Tim is correct, use new nuts, ask me how I know.:biggrin2:
I use this type nuts. Prevailing Torque Lock Nuts.:beerchug:

Thanks Tim and Todd. I have never seen that style of "locking" not. I'll use new nylon lock nuts with a little blue loctite.

Buster, once you replace the driveline you will think that it's a brand new machine and good for another 33 years.:beerchug: That is the issue that is shaking the ole girl apart. If you can't make your own driveshaft give member "Jeff in Pa" a holler. He makes killer rear couplings and an awesome driveshaft.

I've looked at the thread: Parts By Jeff, and don't see any rear couplings for this model......... or did I miss seeing them? I see the narrow frame rear couplings, but that was it. I had been looking for new front and rear for my 1450. The parts I found were astronomical sky high in price, factor in shipping on those, and might as well pick up a 25 piece bag of pins from McMaster and figure shipping and tax on this whole mess and I'm out the wha-zoo $145 bucks :Stop: The flange sells for about $23, Buster. Looks like 33 years worth of neglect, and I'm still attributing some damage from wheel weights. Been a while since I seen a driveline this bad.

Goodluck Buster. I'm near by if you need a hand, :biggrin2:

I got parts on the way. Parts Tree actually had the drive shaft for not too bad of a price. The rest of the parts I ordered from CC Specialties. I am reusing my rear coupler as it wasn't in bad shape and they are very pricey. Now its time to look at the snow blower. I had to drive from Jamestown, NY down I90 to Chardon, OH this evening. What a long miserable drive it was in the white slop today. Everyone was re-learning how to drive in snow again. :Forgot:

Success
 

So, its been a long road getting all the pieces parts put together and finding the time to put the Cub back together. I took the time to remedy a few things while reassembling the driveline. I had to replace some tin work on the K301 that had vibration/fatigue cracks from all of the shaking. I made a muffler support bracket while I wait to rebuild/weld up the aluminum muffler air duct. I will refashion it to work in conjunction with the air duct once I have it finished. I also did some Preventative Maintenance work on the QA36 snow thrower.

She is running smooth now and throwing snow with the best of them. Thanks for the support guys. I wanted to update the thread with good news. Let's hope I don't lose any more hardware. :beerchug:

Glad you got her going... sounds like she is smooth as glass now.. Just for the record.. I don't know if I've ever seen a driveline that bad!:bigthink: It's great you found it before it slung itself apart!!:beerchug: