Project 1650
 

Hi everyone.This is my first post after lurking in the shadows for a while. Recently a 1650 landed on my trailer and followed me home. Needs a lot of work. I have a few older cadets but this is my first Quietline. I see some talk about the motor mounts, but is there anything else I should be checking that is peculiar to these [ newer than what I am used to] ?

Welcome to OCC wagonmaster. :beerchug:

Let's see some pictures of you new toy....

Welcome to OCC...... :Welcome2:

Welcome to OCC.
Like anything 40+ years old, a lot of things will need attention.
You mention motor mounts, there are 4 that look like sway bar bushings in a vehicle.
They can be anything from ok, to gone/nonexistent.
Also the "cradle" they mount too, is bolted to the bottom of the engine.
Those bolts give problems and often times one or more are missing.
Then there are the "Flex Disc joints" & drive shaft issues that need repair.
Best to use your eyes & ears to locate issues and address them one @ a time.
Does it run?
Do understand the 16 Hp kohler is a shaker.
It has a piston the size of one in a small block chevy and vibrates more than a Harley Davidson.
I honestly think Elvis sung "whole lotta shaking going on" in reference to those kohlers Ha,LOL.
You can search on this site for "motor mounts" also "cradle mods" for ideas.
The hydro fluid is prolly like a Slurpee in the rear end.
Change it and the filter as time permits, or immediately if you have issues with it.
There will also be leaks, squeaks & electrical issues to address.
Have fun.:biggrin2:

First off, welcome to OCC! Love seeing new folks and new projects. Lots of great people on here with all different skill levels, lots of great projects and a seemingly infinite amount of knowledge and experience, and it's always nice to see another one.

Aside from the engine mounting situation, that generation tractor is pretty much the same as any other pre-1979 cub cadet. Same chassis, rear end steering, etc.

Main reason that generation of tractor had the ISO mounts and tinwork, front exhaust and whatnot was because those bigger HP K series singles are pretty brutal when they are angry and so IH tried to make it a little more comfy for the operator. A well tuned quietline is a super nice tractor to run.

Major (unique to the quietlines anyway) issue on them is the motor mounts and possibly the muffler/muffler box. You can replace the mounts with factory style ones, or you can go to solid mounts. If you plan to use it a lot, I don't know that I'd go solid mounts on a 1650 personally, just due to that K341 being such a shaker. On a 1250 or 1450, it's not quite as brutal. Some people swear by solid mounts either way. Every one of those K series engines is a little different and some shake more than others, so YMMV.

Also, there's a "cradle mod" that should be done to the engine cradle if you have the engine out and it hasn't already been done.

Other things that probably need attention (just because they always do) is the trunion on the hydro unit, the steering box/tie rods, and the usual rubber and plastic bits that wear out after 40 years.

Thanks for the welcome and advice. I like ol'Georges description of a 16hp kohler shaker lol. Hope to work on it tomorrow. Yes it runs kind of. I have had it idling. It looks and sounds good but backfires when I throttle up. I screwed the high speed jet in 3 turns and still didn't hit bottom but ran out of time at that point. Not sure that the governor spring is correct as it looks new and may be a hardware store spring. I have 4 147's,2 runners , 1 parts, and 1 future project, so I do have hydro experience. I have been collecting projects over the years and now that I am retired maybe I can get to them soon. They include the 147,POsays it maybe blew a rod but looks good from the out side, a 103 with no motor, another two number cadet [cant remember] that needs a clutch, along with four cub lowboys, 2 good running 154's , a 184 that needs a engine rebuild, and another 154 non runner that I nave not looked at much yet. So that is what all the yellow things are under the tarps up in my woods are. Back to the 1650,Gompers mentioned some thing about a trunnion and I don't know what that is. That's all for now, thanks.

Did not have any luck searching info on cradle mods.

Quietline motor rail modification. Page 4 of the Technical Library - tractors.

Hydro lurch, page 1 of same.

Trunion is the little bracket with springs in it that actuates the hydro control. The little "buttons" tend to wear into the bracket over time and the whole spring assembly ends up cocked and makes the hydro unpredictable. Also, from time to time, the springs can collapse and that also creates control issues.

Not a tough or expensive fix and that's generally the major issue with the hydro tractors.

Sounds like you've got a lot of projects to keep you occupied!

Retired?? you should of started long ago with that many projects!!
You better get crackin' every year after retirement, you slow 2 years non retirement time.
BTDT.:biggrin2:

OK, I know what the trunnion is now. Thanks.

Based on what you say about the backfiring you should go to the resource board and get the Kohler manual. Here us a direct link: https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ead.php?t=4646

I would get a carburetor rebuild kit. You can find rebuild instructions here: https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ead.php?t=4376. I got a kit on eBay.

My 1450 had a hardware store governor spring on it when I got it. I replaced it with a genuine Kohler spring I got from one of the board sponsors. Check the links at the top of this page or PM me for help.

As far as the thrown rod goes these cast iron blocks can take more abuse than aluminum blocks but I have seen holes in them too. You should disassemble the engine to see what you have.

Sometime in the late 1980s I was on a neighbor's 122 when it just stopped running. The engine spun down slowly and cranked over fast when I tried to start it. I towed it home with their 1000 (which I now own). When I tore the engine down I found the rod shattered in pieces like glass. After 20 years it catastrophically failed. That was my first experience rebuilding a Kohler that started a true appreciation for these engines. The point is until you get into the engine you don't really know what you have.

OK, this thing is starting to test my patience. I will eventually figure it out but maybe somebody can give me a clue first. It will idle ok but a little rough and then backfire and die when I throttle up .

I rebuilt the carb , cleaned the tank,[ love the plastic tank ] new gas line and filter, good gas flow to the carb, new spark plug, filed the points so they are making good spark and its still the same. Can't find the timing marks on the rusty flywheel with or without the timing light. I varied the point gap both ways a little and still the same. Although the points look good, I broke down and got a new set and condenser and now find that there was no condenser
on this engine. Is this the clue I have been looking for? What do you think ?

Motor is out now to do the cradle mod. Can't decide if I want to go with solid or rubber mounts.:bigthink:

What new filter?

Go with OEM rubber mounts.

An AWOL condensor is a big clue! Put the new condensor on and see what happens! Pretty good chance it will run better and you will eliminate a variable that causes somewhat poor running idle that gets rougher when you throtttle up!

If the engine is out, pull the air shroud and clean the flywheel so you can find the timing marks. Wouldn't hurt to air hose the crap out of that area anyway.

That is the fuel filter, twoton.
I guess the condenser should be between the points and the -terminal of the coil but does it matter witch end of the wire its on?

Yes I will be cleaning the flywheel and painting the timing marks.

As for the hardware store governor spring, I have the correct spring on order.

BTW, this tractor will be a worker. All go, no show.
If I ever paint it , it will be a quick hood dash fenders &wheels off, power wash and spray, with a little more prep on the removed parts. I have to many other things that need my time.

The witch might not like that condenser up hers!:biggrin2:

Seriously, just as long as the condenser is wired between the negative of the coil and the points, it does not matter WHICH end you attach the wire. It is important the body of the condenser is attached to a good grounded source for it to work properly.

Do you mean the screen it the tank? Just curious. I've noticed that whenever people try to add an additional inline filter onto one of these tractors, it always seems to cause problems.

twoton, I know the screen you are talking about from EricWww's post, but my
gas flow was good to the carb. I didn't want to brake something that didn't need fixing.
One thing I found yesterday, when removing the batt. ground cable from the engine the cable fell out of the ring end. It could not have been making much of a connection.

Good you found that. The importance of good grounds cannot be over emphasized.

More comments on motor mounts, solid vs rubber ?

I can sum it up easily,
some prefer solid mounts,
others have tried them and went back to rubber.
It is all personal preference, just like what you drive, drink, or sleep with.:biggrin2:

I am far from an expert on these things but,.. this is my understanding of the subject.

Gear drive Quietline tractors use a flexible 3 pin driver which is prone to fail. When people switch to a solid 3 or 6 pin driver, whether as a repair or when building a pulling tractor, they also switch to solid motor mounts. This helps to ensure proper clutch alignment, operation and reduces wear.

There are no such issues with a hydro Quietline. Especially considering many have 14 and 16 HP engines, the rubber mounts are probably the best solution to help reduce the transmission of vibration from these larger power plants to the tractor frame and operator.

:TwoCents:

I've put OEM iso mounts on all of my QLs. Even my 1000. I'd consider going to the solid mounts on the 1000 since it's the smaller engine, but the 1450s and the 1650 really benefit from the squishy mounts. IMO. The flex driver on my 1000 was in good shape, so it's working fine with the ISO mounts.

Ok Thanks for the comments .

When I get the mounts, is it easer to mount the cradle to the frame then drop the motor in or bolt the cradle to the motor then drop it in together ?

I always bolt the engine cradle to the oil pan, and shoe-horn the assembly into the engine bay. There is not much room between the cradle and the frame to start the oil pan bolts. I'm on my 3rd tear down and put-back on my 1450 Quiet Line and this has worked every time. Just slip one lower mount under each corner, one at a time, then the uppers and go from there.

Sometimes, after a cradle modification, the cradle can warp at the flywheel ends, and make the cradle mating a read sucker even with the pan jig. That's one good improvement CCC done with the spread frame GT's.

So, its all the better to know the cradle holes align to the oil pan holes, then install like I suggested. Looking forward to your thread, and to give me some inspiration to get my 1450 done, lol!

That's what I wanted to hear john. When welding the cross bar, I thought I had the side rails clamped down tight enough but the rear did tighten up about 1/8 inch. Oil pan holes still line up but very tight. I may have to enlarge one hole just a bit. Thanks.

If anyone is wondering, as near as I can tell by my bathroom scales, I weighed my K341 with cradle = 127 lbs.

My hyd. control lever looks different than what I see in a diagram. Mine has a roll pin fastening it to the arm. Forgive me, I don't know how to link to diagram.

Does sound about right.

MAJOR WIN TODAY!!!!!!! After a couple months of taking my time tinkering, adjusting, fixing, modifying, replacing and checking things, I finely got enough parts back on it to fire it up. It runs GREAT!!! I cant believe how smooth and quiet it is compared to my 147s. Looks like the lack of a condenser was my problem before. This maybe why the PO never had it running that I know of. It ran so rough before it knocked and shook so bad that I was afraid it was going to break a rod or crank. I am a very happy man now. Still a lot of work left to do, check timing with a light now that I have the timing mark painted on the flywheel, change hyd. oil & filter and adjust trans. linkage to get it to sand still when in neutral. Later.

Just finishing up the last details. What is the proper fasteners to hold the mesh grill screen on? My grill was wired on.

I still get a chuckle about the witch Billy. Spell check is not fool proof.

Back to the beginning, I never did say how this all got started. I was not really looking for another cub cadet, but I kept passing buy this 1650 between town and home for several years. It sat out by a shed for about a year, then got pushed out in the weeds behind the shed for a couple more years. One day I saw a guy working out by the shed so I stopped to check it out. Guy said it belonged to his nephew so he texted my number to him. I thought he would probably want way more than I wanted to spend because along with the tractor was a decent looking 44in. deck, tiller, bigass 44in. two stage snow blower, I think it's a 364, tire chains, 2 spare spindles and blades, and a snow plow blade [ no frame ] that does not look like anything cub cadet. The owner called me the next day and asked me if I would give $100. Hell yah :beerchug:
It was a couple days until he could get together with me to close the deal and all the time I was worried that he would talk to someone and they would betterdeal me out of it. It all came together and after to many hours of tinkering and about $200 in parts, it runs great, deck is ready to go, and snow blower seems to work ok. Waiting for snow to try it out.

That's a heck of a deal. Congrats!

Here's what you need to hold the grill in place.
Either those or a couple of #10 bolts, flat washers and ny-loc nuts

Isn't a hoot to take an old neglected machine and to get it working again?

Very cool....good job!