149 Rebuild
 

Hello, I added two new members to my collection in the form of a 149 and 128. This thread will be about getting the 149 in good mechanical condition. From what I know about the tractor from the previous owner it has had a engine replacement at some point with a newer stock k321. I bought the tractor because I was looking for a higher hp hydro wide frame with hydraulic lift and this one fit the bill. Now I had a friend purchase the tractor for me as I was going out of town for thanksgiving and just had a chance to pick it up and dig into this Friday.

So far it is a little tougher than I had anticipated. I ended up having to pull the motor after realizing the rag joint was torn out on the front end of the shaft. I did get the motor to pop over a few times though before pulling it. It is definitely a replacement Kohler but is a k321. The drive shaft is worn badly as well as the engine and transaxle coupler. This is where I am a little confused.

It was my assumption that all wide frames had the same drive shaft motor coupler as the narrow frames with the spiral pin and coupler with the two notches cut in it for the pin to engage with. However, this tractor has a flex disc joint on both ends of the drive shaft with a motor coupler with a hiem ball joint swivel in it. It appears like it could be from a quiet line setup. Is this something that could have been factory on some wide frames or is this a PO modification when the new Kohler was fitted?

I am going to try to reach out to Jeff and have him fabricate a new drive shaft for me if possible. I can find flex disc joints and the cooling fan relatively easily as well. But I still need to track down the correct hydro coupler and motor coupler.

Only one flex disc joint at the hydro end and none in front.

Indeed, it sounds as if someone has taken "liberties" with this machine in an effort to "improve" it.

Link to parts list:
https://www.cubcadet.com/en_US/conte...2f9b6181c588/y

Here are some pictures of the carnage to far. First one is of the tractor with the motor yanked out. The second one shows all of the driveshaft parts and the third shows a close up of the driveshaft.

The parts as you have pictured is a "legitimate" improvement fix for the 149. As long as none of them are are worn, all you should need is new flex dsic joints. Many guys like to double up the rag joints at the rear. The only thing I can't tell from your pics is that the "skinny tit" at the rear end of the drive shaft should fit nicely into a "smaller hole" in the hydro input coupler. When flex disc joints go bad that "skinny tit" and "smaller hole" can become elongated, then you get wobble and vibration.
Here's some pics:

Here is a crude drawing I made showing the lengths of the different parts of the shaft. Does this seem to match that of a standard Quietline shaft?

Thanks for the information. It definitely seems like an improvement over the older style design as you pointed out. That being said, do I order a quietline shaft or do I order one for a wide frame? I would assume the wide frame shaft would need to be drilled for the roll pin that holds the front rag joint coupler. I would like to order one from Jeff but I need to figure out what to tell him to make.

I made good progress on the 149 this afternoon. I removed the seat pan and completely cleaned up the outside of the hydro. Then I pulled the rear cover and cleaned out the gunk from inside the rear. Wasn’t actually too bad as the oil had little water and there wasn’t much of a build up of sludge on the sides. I presume it was been changed regularly although the filter looked like an original style IH filter. Then I changed the filter and refilled it with hytran.

The next issue I turned my attention to was the dash. I had to drill out some of the mounting screws and install new machine screws. I then had to figure out what was going on with the hydro control lever. It was very loose on the shaft and flopping around. Well, what I discovered wasn’t good. Apparently the previous owner had issues with it coming loose and decided to replace the set screw with a 1/4 bolt and drill all the way through the splined shaft. Now it is all worn out and about ready to snap off because the cross hole is almost as wide as the shaft. The splines are also a mess now in the handle and shaft.

So I elected to remove the control shaft and lever and research replacing them. From what I’ve researched they made two different models of the shaft for different serial number ranges. Mine is the older style and I currently can’t find a good used shaft anywhere. I can find a used handle on eBay though. I’ve attached some pictures of the shaft and the older style mount for it and was wondering if anyone had a parts tractor or spare shaft and lever hanging around that is is good condition they would be interested in selling? I also want to see if this is something Jeff could fabricate.

Jeff is hooking me up with a new driveshaft setup now. He is unable to cut the splines needed to make the hydro shaft though. So anyone who has one they are willing to sell please let me know. I’ll continue searching in the meantime.

Sent you a PM.

It was raining all day here so I decided to work on the motor I pulled out of the 149 in my shed. This is definitely a replacement Kohler but I do not know from what time. I attached a photo of the tag if anyone could shed light onto when this was made. It is a k321 though so that is all that is important to me right now as this will be a work tractor.

I tore the tins and all the exterior parts off of the engine including shroud, carb, points, condenser, coil, and pcv. Then I cleaned all of these parts up well and degreased the block the best I could. Then I cleaned the pcv and adjusted the valve lash back to spec. I installed new points and gapped them along with a new spark plug. I thoroughly cleaned the carb and jets which actually wasn’t too dirty and isn’t worn badly yet at the journals. I also welded the muffler heat shield which was cracked around the mounting holes and reassembled the motor. It should now be ready to bolt in and run. I’ve already changed the oil when I got it.

I’ve attached a few photos of the finished product. Since I use all my machines for both work and just enjoying running them almost daily I am not worried about repainting it and going through every nook and cranny with a tooth brush. I just wanted to clean it up a little and help keep it running cooler. Hopefully the rings and bore are in good shape; but, I do not know yet.

My 149 has a similar story. My K321 engine serial number begins with a 16 indicating a 1986 replacement, while your engine was replaced in 1985. You will find this explained in the K321 service manual available here in the tech section.

Did yours also come with the fixed main-jet Walbro carb? Mine had a worn throttle shaft, so I bought a china replacement carb. It works OK after some tweaks and it was only $15. I also have a 149 thread here: https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ad.php?t=55868

Thanks for the information on the year the engine was replaced. This engine actually has an adjustable main jet walbro carb like most of the older ones. I’m hoping I can get it dialed in pretty good. I’ve had really good luck with these carbs so I think it will be fine. I have a few of the China knock offs on other tractors as well as the original ones were badly worn. They work okay; but, they all leak when setting so I have to shut the fuel off. They also can be difficult to get perfectly dialed in and don’t seem to start well in the cold like the original carbs did. I almost wonder if it is a jetting issue in them or just a poor casting. But, they get the job done.

Made some progress on the 149 this afternoon. Thanks to the generosity of another member here I was able to get ahold of the correct hydro control shaft and lever to replace mine. I got those installed on the tractor but I forgot to order the plastic friction bushing for it yet. But, for now it is tightened up enough to use. Then I painted and installed my new drive shaft and couplers from Jeff with new rag joints. I also bolted back on the seat pan and got my new seat mounted and new choke cable installed. So hopefully tomorrow I can heave the motor back in and button up the front end. Then, I should be able to attempt a test drive.

Sorry no pictures yet as it was well after dark when I was done putting tools and parts away for the night.

Well, I got the engine installed today and everything buttoned up nicely. Worst part was getting those front motor mounting bolts in. But I got it. I checked everything over once more and attempted the first start. It actually fired right up and after some carb adjustments it runs really well. Pto clutch works as it should as well as the hydraulic lift.

I took it for its first test drive and the hydro seems strong on it. But I definitely need to get that plastic bushing installed on the hydro lever as it is very tricky to hold the lever stable without any dampening right now. Now here is the bad news.

First up the my brand new cooling fan for the hydro has become a 10 piece design again. I believe a stick got up in it on the ride. Second, the hydro seems slower than my 147 does. It is plenty strong uphill and maintains speed fine but seems like it is a few mph slower than I’m used to. I was wondering if this could be intentional by IH since it is newer than my 147 or if I need to do some linkage adjustments?

Finally, the motor has a bad knock coming from it. It sounds very much like rod knock and I’ve eliminated the hood, pto, grill and other external parts. Only thing I haven’t checked is the muffler to see if a baffle is broken out. Could it be the balance gears causing this knock? I guess either way I am destined to pull this motor out again and tear it apart. It smokes anyways so I will probably go ahead and hone the cylinder and buy a rebuild kit.

I was just thinking that when I go to effort of removing the engine again I will probably remove the balance gears all together. I know many people do so and was wondering if anyone knows how big of a difference it makes on vibration? I just don’t like the idea of them deciding to do remodeling on my crank case and install a new window. I know not all engines had them anyways. But, if they run like a paint shaker without them then I’ll keep and replace them if bad.

your knock may be camshaft end play.

I've been getting some seat time on my 149, pulling the lawn sweeper around. I have noticed a rattle or knock that has me a little worried. It happens from mid to full throttle. It doesn't smoke so I'm hoping it's nothing serious.

Is there a foolproof way to diagnose this?

Aircomet, what town are you in? I'm near Annapolis.

I am near Sharpsburg Maryland.

What is the distinguishing characteristic of camshaft endplay knock? I noticed it doesn’t seem to be load dependentat all. It actually quiets up sometimes going uphill. It seems to be a midrange and high rpm most noticeable. Idle it is quiet. That’s why I am questioning rod knock myself as usual they will really hammer under load. Also it doesn’t knock every time it fires. It stops for a few revolutions and then knocks.

Also, is it a common issue for these newer style cam-cover dipsticks to be pushed out of the dipstick tubes by crank case pressure and start blowing oil out? I had to put a small spring on it to hold it in. But it doesn’t fit tight at all. O ring on it looks okay but might be worn. My buddy’s 169 has the same issue.

If the vent isn't clogged is must need new rings. My Oring is good and tight, so try that first.

As for my knocking sound, I remember that the engine driveshaft coupler has a long notch worn in it. Could that be it? I'll remove the driveshaft and listen again. If the coupler is steel, I'll put some copper in the hole and try filling in the grove with my mig. While I'm at it I'll weld the broken heat shield.

I think our machines might be twins!

Could very well be. My 147 drive shaft started knocking before it sheared the pin off in the coupler. It was most noticeable as it spun down when you shut it off or starting. I ended up having Jeff fabricate me a new shaft, coupler, and pins for it. I’ve got the rag joint coupler on my 149 now so I can eliminate the driveline on that.

149
 

Aircomet, I removed the balance gears on my 149 last year when I rebuilt the engine. I do not notice any more vibration after removal. I am going to rebuild another K321 next summer and will remove the balance gears from it also. Have a great day.
Bob

Thanks very much for that information. I have decided to remove the gears in this one when I pull it again as well as another Kohler I am rebuilding for another tractor.

Does anyone know where to find the appropriate shims to adjust the camshaft endplay in these?

I got the motor pulled back out of it again and started tearing into it. I was leaning towards either balance gears or camshaft end play as usually rod knock would get much louder and more defined under load versus no load. This did not do that at all. Well, after getting it all apart and inspecting everything I am almost certain it was the balance gears. The needle bearings are worn pretty badly and they had a lot of play on the shafts to wobble. Additionally, I checked camshaft endplay and that is well within spec according to the Kohler manual. Also, the rod journal looks almost new. Minimal scoring or signs of wear. Bore looked okay with light scoring from normal wear.

So, I elected to order a standard rebuild kit for it and hone the cylinder. I know in an ideal world it should probably be bored .0010” over; but, I do not have a trusted machine shop yet to do this work for me. Also, if I did that I would want the head surfaced and new valve guides installed and seats cut. But, I’m not eager to go through all of that for this motor. I might try to track down an older k321 block and do a complete overhaul with machine work to that as I feel like it. Then drop it in at some point.

Kit should be in later this week in time to try and get the old girl back together this weekend. Hopefully this time it will stay together. I know those balance gears were a ticking time bomb though. Definitely needed to be pulled apart again.

Got the motor rebuilt this afternoon and evening. I measured the bore first with my new digital caliper which is supposed to be accurate to 0.0005” I ordered and bore gauges just to see if it was way out of spec for a standard size rebuild. I was pleasantly surprised to discover it is actually still within spec for a standard bore size in terms of wear, taper, and out of round. So, I honed the cylinder and proceeded on with the rebuild.

The process went pretty smoothly. Worst parts were getting the rings on without an expander tool. It actually wasn’t that hard but I was paranoid about not breaking the rings. Then, getting the bearing plate on with adequate crank thrust was kind of a pain mainly because the bearing was snug on the crank and trying to hold the gaskets in place while tapping it on was tricky. Didn’t help the motor was rolling all over my work cart. But it turned out well. I was impressed with the quality if the kit.

Now to get it back in the tractor once more. Hopefully it will stay together for me. What’s the recommended break it on these? I would presume something like avoid full rpm and heavy loads for 2hrs while trying to vary speed and light load. I will probably change the oil after 15min or so to flush out any garbage that may have gotten in there. Then, probably again after 2hrs.

Take it out a work the heck out of it.
Then retorque the head bolts

Got the motor back in today. That was a pain mainly due to me not spacing the pto clutch/ starter generator pulley properly on the crank. Had to take it off again and readjust the spacing. But, I got it. I put a new hydro cooling fan on again and figured out why my last new one broke. Apparently I put the fan on too far forward and the hydraulic lift linkage became an interference fit with it. And, while I had good access I installed my hydro control shaft bushing. I also put a stack on it with a tractor muffler while I was at it. Just something I wanted as a personal taste.

The engine started up and ran well. No smoking or unusual knocks to be heard. I did have issues for awhile of it shutting off and not restarting up again. Finally figured out that my new 90 degree fuel cutoff was blocked up and only dripping fuel. So I replaced it with a new one and we are good now. I also retorqued the head bolts after I figured that out.

Sorry no pictures tonight. It was dark by the time I got the fuel issue figured out. Tomorrow I’m going to run it a few more minutes to dial the carb in again. Then, change the oil and see what that looks like. Then, I’m going to address some other issues with the tractor such as the headlights and such.

I worked on some stuff on the 149 again today. I did the first oil change and it had a decent amount of glitter in it. But, I think that is the normal amount for rings seating in. Then, I tried dialing in the carb better. Well, it never adjusted very well. It actually ran best with the needle adjustmentment screws in my pocket. So, needless to say that had to come back off. I ended up just swapping it for another original carb I had leftover. Night and day difference now. Then, I put some two link chains on it for the mud and snow. I put the factory exhaust back on as my tractor muffler/stack had an annoying tone.

Here are some pictures of the machine back together.

Good looking 149!

I was messing with the 149 some more and have a question. Did some k series Kohlers not have a hole in the shroud for a timing light? I set the points at 0.020”, but wanted to put a light on it now that I’ve got it running to dial it in. But, I cannot find a sight hole in the shroud. How do you go about timing these then?

I wondered the same thing. No hole on mine either. If my cover ever comes off maybe I'll pop a hole in it.

I believe that the hole is in the bearing plate, it has a plug over it.

Thanks. I will check tomorrow and report back.

It will be just below the rear plate of the s/g and very hard to get at and see.
So here is my suggestion:
Once you have found the hole, with engine not running, line up the "S" mark
to the center of the sight hole.
Now with a paint pen or a model builders fine paint brush and some bright colored paint,
paint a mark on the starter pulley, and an adjacent mark on the engine block.
Do this on the points side of the block where the pulley and the block are close together.
Now you can shine your timing light on the paint marks just like you would
on your auto engine timing marks and you have access to the points.
The paint marks also make it easier to line up TDC if you need to in the future.

It's after the fact now, but you could have set the points very easily and precisely while the engine was out using the static method with a test light.

Thanks ironman for the tips. I finished timing the engine and was actually able to see the hole and mark easy enough. So, I just timed it off that; but, I will keep your tip in mind for other tractors that might not be as accessible (certain green one comes to mind). Anyways, glad I did it because it was off by about 6 degrees. It ran well before like that anyway. But, seems even better now. Hopefully this helps with the starting process. It purrs like a kitten, but is extraordinarily cold blooded. It mainly acted like it was kicking back and firing early because the generator really struggled to turn it once it started trying to fire. We shall see if this helps. I know the ACR is good as I inspected it while it was apart and set valve lash.

I want to remove my 149 driveshaft to see if the badly worn coupler is causing a knocking sound. Should I unbolt the engine or the trans? I already pulled the rag joint bolts.

I’ve heard opinions arguing for doing it both ways. Personally, I tend to remove the engine as I am always working by myself. I find it easier to manhandle the engine around than the transaxle by myself while trying to line up mounts again. But, pulling the transaxle allows you to clean off all the gunk and debris so it runs cooler. Conversely, removing the engine allows you to unbolt the shrouds and degrease the block or freshen it up. No right or wrong approach.

I’ve put quite a few hours on the 149 now and it is running really well. I’ve done some more minor repairs and adjustments and believe I have it dialed in pretty good. It can be a little temperamental in the cold to get fired but definitely better than it was after carb work and timing. The main quirk it has is that it only likes to fire up at idle. Open it up and try to start it cold and you get nothing but a few random hits. Leave it at idle and it will roll to life at 1000 rpm at 20 degrees out. Whatever makes it happy as long as it starts as far as I’m concerned at this point.

I’ve got a quick question/opinion I’d like to get though. I am thinking about using this to mow with next year and have several options for decks to use. I have a really nice 48” cast iron nose triangle deck that I restored. But, I’ve also got the later style 44” pressed steel deck that it came with. I was leaning towards fixing that one up to use just because I believe it will cut better especially in thick grass However, the 48” would make quicker work of the large acerage. Just wanted some opinions on it. Which style do you all prefer and why?

Update on the 149. I’ve got quite a bit of time on it by now (probably 12-15hrs) and it is still running strong. Starts right up and has great power. I just did my second oil change on it and it had significantly less metal than it did on the first one that I did after 2hrs; but, it was still a decent amount. Is this normal to have after 10 or so hours after a rebuild?