White smoke from crankcase vent???
 

So what does white smoke mean coming from a crankcase vent? The 107 (K241) finally freed up its oil control ring, and she stopped burning oil. However, it started blowing white smoke from the crankcase breather.

Tractor is not running lean (in fact it's actually running a bit rich, I should probably tune that better) and there is no debris beneath the fan shroud, so I do not believe it is because of overheating. The machine also blows a bit of white smoke out the muffler upon startup, but clears up once it warms up. It runs fine, throttles up and down no issue, no sign of it bogging down like it's overheating at all, no engine knocks (other than the worn drive hub that I need to replace). I gave it an oil change after I got it running 3 months ago, hasn't been used much since then, oil is clean.

Might there be something in the oil trying to boil off? Maybe some condensation from the engine walls? (it is, after all, cast iron). Maybe there's a little bit of gasoline that somehow managed to leak into it during the short time that it didn't have a shutoff valve? Carb is new so I wouldn't expect a bad needle and seat, but you never know.

I am thinking that the white smoke from the muffler is because of the rich mixture, but I am completely clueless about the crankcase vent. Anyone know what the issue is here??? :Help:

Condensation. There is or has been a fair amount of water in the crankcase. Most likely this is vapor from precipitate from the products of combustion. There is a certain amount of water in the oil, if the smoke is really smoke, and not condensation, then it could be an emulsion mix of oil and water.

Now that is the answer I was hoping to hear! Thanks for the quick response. I wasn't sure whether to call it smoke or steam.

The "vapor from precipitate from the products of combustion" makes very much sense, because it did burn oil and when it did, smoke from the burning oil would travel back down past the stuck ring and into the crankcase. Luckily she stopped doing that once that ring freed up, guess it's just evaporating out of the crankcase. Should I change the oil again? It's still very clean, not enough water in it to cause any sort of discoloration.

Well, I'm not Blackstone, and not a Tribologist, but I would say it would be wise to change the oil. You have condensate, plus products of combustion in the oil, and some of it is emulsified(will never separate until it is boiled out).

Oil is cheap, engines are not. I will offer an opinion that synthetic oil is not used in air cooled small utility engines. We do not have pressure lubrication, and rely on some amount of surface tension and stickiness so I prefer straight weight dino oil, but this may set off a lot of controversy.

I know for a fact that aircraft with air cooled engines did not react well when Mobil introduced a full syn oil for Lycoming and Continental air cooled aviation engines. In fact, Mobil was the source of several engine failures in flight, causing a few deaths, and planes destroyed. Mobil was forced to remove the oil from the market, paid out some large claims for damage, and is now very cautious about anything aviation. Our air cooled engines also use oil to help cool, and the dino, non-syn oil is better at heat transfer than modern syn oils.

YMMV

Sounds good. Current oil is the local TSC brand 10w-30 (not synthetic), and it has a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil in it as well (to help with the stuck ring). I will get some more oil and do an oil change, see where that leaves me.

:Thanks:

You may also want to service the breather assl'y to make sure it is clean and the drain hole is clean and free of any gunk.
You will need 2 new gaskets to do that.

You should be running straight 30wt oil; that could be part of your problem.

IIRR Dan,
don't they recommend 10W30 in winter conditions (-*32)?
And while I'm at it, try after changing the oil, not using any "additives"
and work the engine enough to evaporate any lingering moisture and see what transpires.:bigthink:

I remember reading that 10w30 should be used in cold conditions, and winter certainly is coming, I believe there's about a 1/2 inch of snow on the ground right now! I can get some straight 30 if that will help, it's just that 10w30 is more plentiful around here.

I will refrain from using MMO when I change it, that was only used in the effort to free the stuck ring. No real need to use it again.

From the book

Above +32* SAE 30 Note: do not substitute10W-30 or 10W-40

+32* to 0* SAE-10W

Below 0* SAE 5W-20 or SAE 5W

yep, I remember reading that. Currently it is slightly below 32 here, and it's only gonna get colder, so can't hurt to stick with 10w30 for the winter and then come Springtime I will change it out for straight 30.

10W30 in the winter, yes.

Okay, picked up 2 quarts of fresh 10w30, and a suicide knob. Already installed the knob, doing the oil change Saturday. I'll check back in once the fresh oil is in the engine and see if the white smoke clears up.

Thank you guys for the help figuring this issue out! :Thanks::biggrin2:

I have to laugh on the suicide knob, in my day we also called them neckers knobs.
you could steer yer hotrod and still have your arm around yer gal:beerchug:
Aww to be that young again!!

Yep I've heard quite the stories about them from my neighbors (who are all much older than me). Around here we call them a suicide knob but I know there are more terms for them :biggrin2:

Really I just bought it because I have one on my 106 and really like it, so I finally got one for the 107 too. Only issue is I had to stick a piece of old fuel line under the wheel between it and the bracket in order to keep it in place.

Granted it's just a cheap simple one, so it's not that big a deal.

In my youth, I was pulled over by an officer with my girl alongside of me,
and a spinner/neckers knob on my steering wheel.
As he asked for my license, I asked him why he stopped me?
He said "I noticed you were driving with one arm around your girl"
I said well officer, if I used both arms, I couldn't drive!
He held a stern face and looked at my license, then he started laughing, but quickly stopped and said I understand, but do drive with both hands on the wheel, now have a good day, but If I observe you driving unsafely again,I'll write you a violation,------ never mentioning the Neckers knob :High5:

I had to learn to shift my floor shifter with my foot!!

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

I quickly realized that you were 100% correct in saying that you can't drive with both hands on the wheel, assuming that your car was a manual. Gotta keep the right hand free for shiftin' (or left if you come from Europe I guess)

Them were the days when a cop could cut you some slack.
The way things are now, if he doesn't bust you and you continue down the road ending up in some predicament, hjs a$$ ends up in just as much trouble as you.

She worked the stick shifts

During my youth, my dates quickly learned how to shift for me, and shift it well.
it was only when I decided to "run the guy" at the stop light,(A quick sprint to the speed limit) then I did my own shifting.
55-60 years ago there was little traffic on the highways.
Also the police knew a lot of the "locals" and cut us some slack.
They were young too, not that long ago.
Don't get me wrong, if we did stuff that was more than lighting up the tires,
like driving while drinking under age/driving drunk, we got in trouble.
It was a good time to grow up, the air was dirty, but sex was clean.
Gas was .$0.17 a gallon and I made $0.65 an hour.

Woodstock wouldn't happen for 8 years and the beetles were bugs in the garden.
No Crack in my system just grease under my finger nails.
I wouldn't mind going back if it could be done.


Now i need to blow the whistle on myself, as I have run this train is way off the track.
My apologies ( till next time) :biggrin2:

Well, there isn't any issue with that. Nothing wrong with talking about how things used to be, I wasn't alive at that time but have heard so much about it that I wish I was.

Going back to the topic, I think I'm gonna do the oil change tonight rather than Saturday because I have more time than i thought. We'll see what happens :beerchug:

Okay progress update:

Oil has been changed, about 1.25 quarts of this stuff

Attachment 106244

Old oil was a bit darker than it seemed inside the engine (although that bucket was already pretty dirty :biggrin2: )

Attachment 106245

Results:

So I believe there is gas getting into the oil. When I shut the machine down last Saturday the fuel line was full of gas (it's a clear line) but today when I went to start it it was mostly empty. After the oil change I shut the valve and let it run itself out of gas, but there must be something wrong with my fuel system.

Speaking of fuel system, it has a very tight flow. The carb is a new Chinesey off-brand, and it seems to function fine when running. It seems to run a bit rich, unless that's just my bad tuning. Gas only flows through the fuel line if the needle/seat is open, so once it fills the gas stops flowing through the line. Now it works fine when running, but I feel like that isn't normal.

Okay and the most important part, once at running temperature, unfortunately the white cloud came back. Someone did say I may have to run it for a bit to let everything evaporate, though, so that may be why. I stuck my face up under the breather while it was running and it clearly doesn't smell like anything, leading me to believe it is most likely steam.

Any thoughts/info or some help with the fuel system?

Do you shut the gas off when you shut the engine off and see if your fuel level in your tank drops any? And the oil level magically rises before you fire it up again?

I always shut the gas off once I turn off the engine (except this time when I shut the gas off and let the engine run out of it), gas leaks slowly from the valve on top of the fuel bowl, only when the valve is closed though. The tank may slowly drop in fuel level because of this leak, but the gas is just exiting the fuel system entirely and dripping on the ground. Gas will not flow in the line when the valve is closed, so that works properly.

The oil level was previously right about at the max fill line, and when I noticed the absence of fuel in the line, I checked the dipstick. I noticed that there was a very slight amount of clear liquid that seemed thinner than the oil below, bringing the level to just above the max fill line. When I drained the oil into the bucket, it seemed that a thin layer of thinner liquid settled on top of the oil too.

Nope, can't have that. Gotta get the fuel system to shut off completely, every time. I can't comment on the carb or tuning except the way I do it. Warm the engine, then run it full throttle no load, turn the main mixture screw in until it starts to drop RPM, then turn about 1/2 back rich(out).

OBTW, best to use non-Eth gas as the Ethanol is hydroscopic(draws water from the humidity in the air).

Leaking around the "T" handle on the valve??

Tighten the packing nut on the valve shaft a bit.

Yes, that is where it leaks, only when the valve is shut off though.

Unfortunately tightening the nut won't help, the reason it leaks is because when the valve is closed, I can wiggle it around inside the packing nut because it's worn out.

Not to mention the fact that whoever used that gas tank and fuel bowl before me stripped that nut completely :bash2:

Come to think of it, I don't think that leak is enough to get gas into my crankcase, right? All it does is slowly drip onto the ground

The gas will leak out the carb and into the air filter before it gets in the engine if the needle valve is stuck open.

What's a new valve bulb assl'y?
$15??
No brainer.

The leaky fuel bowl doesn't bother me, it doesn't leak when the gas is on, which means it doesn't leak when I'm running/driving the machine.

The only trouble is why and how gas is leaking through the carburetor, possibly into the crankcase???? Is there something wrong with my cheapo chinesey carb?

And by the way Lew, the only liquid present in the air filter was a bit of oil from the precleaner when I installed it new.

Then your carb is not leaking.

hmmmm...

where'd all the fuel that was in the line go then? The line don't leak, just the fuel bowl.

:bigthink::bigthink:

evaporation...

now why didn't I think of that? :HeadScratch: