Mystery Cub.... 200 bucks, complete with quirks
 

Picked up a 3rd member for my fleet, and it came with a few oddities.
Oddity 1: I'm not sure if it's a 70 or 100 or something else. There's no model on the hood, or outline where it used to be, only a faint red line along both sides. (might not be the original hood) It's got a narrow dash, small footplates, no serial number plate. (Pictures coming soon).
Problem one, the rear end. When I was dragging it into my shop, I noticed the rear wheels were spinning opposite directions. One was moving forward, the other backwards, while being dragged forwards. (I made sure it was in neutral). Has anyone experienced this before, and if so, what causes it?
Problem 2, the wiring is a mess. One broken wire off the harness and I don't know where it goes, plus a fuse panel with glass fuses in it. I've never seen this on any other tractor. (again, pictures coming soon)
Oddity 2/problem 3, it has a Tecumseh engine. I know nothing about them whatsoever, and had never even heard of them until getting this tractor. At least the engine is free and seems to have decent compression. I'm going to address this later, it's not an urgent problem if it starts after I fix the wiring.

Problem one, maybe the differential input shaft is locked, not rotating. Check transmission/differential is free to turn with the wheels elevated. Disconnect input to differential and turn input shaft by hand. Hopefully input turns easily and wheels turn. If input is held, wheels will turn opposite directions due to differential gear action.

First, welcome to OCC......... :Welcome2:

(A) Post a picture of this tractor. FYI, the model 70 & 100 are the same except for the engine.

(B) There are Wiring Diagrams in our Technical Library Section on Page #5

(C) Cub Cadet NEVER used a Tecumseh engine in any of their Garden Tractors.

If the brake is engaged or stuck, it will lock the pinion gear and cause the tires to drag and spin in opposite directions.

The 128/129 had the red stripe on the hoods.

Tecumseh engine in a Cub??? Hopefully they didn't chop your frame up too much putting that in! Wonder how they mounted it to the clutch too? Must be quite the setup under the hood.

The Differential is what causes the wheels to spin in opposite directions. Also allows one wheel to spin faster than the other, making steering easier.

Thanks! Is there a diagram I could look at somewhere? I've never taken any kind of transmission apart.
Thank you! As soon as I get someone with a camera phone to the shop, I'll get photographs on here for I.D. The wiring diagram is a godsend, I'll be copying that over by hand so I have it in the workshop! The Tecumseh threw me for a loop, I always thought they all had Kohlers.
The frame has been cut and a piece of metal welded to lengthen and widen where the engine sits. As soon as I can, I'll get some pictures up.

Picture Time!
 

You can see the faint red stripe on the hood. The other side looks just like this, not even a shadow of decals
Attachment 106798
Narrow dash, small footplates
Attachment 106799
This is the frame modification for the Tecumseh engine
Attachment 106800

Attachment 106801

Here's the "fusebox"
Attachment 106802

Attachment 106803
As she sits in the workshop
Attachment 106804
THIS is what I saw poking out of a corner in a yard that made me hit the brakes and do a double-take
Attachment 106805

Wow they really hacked up the frame to fit that engine in! :bigeyes:

Guess you can't do much about it now short of locating an original Kohler and completely cutting up the mods, and trying to re-weld it back to original with the proper steel.

That engine looks like it came from a Massey Ferguson tractor. It has the right paint color, and you can see that the gas tank is turned the wrong way. Originally the engine would have been mounted sideways in the tractor it came from, to run a belt drive. Definitely not something I've seen before!

Unfortunately the original engine would have determined whether it is a 70 or 100, unless you can locate the serial number and match it somehow.

I am going to say that is/was a model 70. See attached image from an IH brochure of the time.

I'm hoping the Tecumseh will run, so I at least have a working tractor until I can locate a Kohler. The serial number plate on the rear end was gone, so I suppose since the tractors themselves were the same, it could be rebuilt either way, 7 or 10 hp. Guess I have to do some measuring to find out if the frame was simply cut and widened or cut, widened, and lengthened. Isn't it the same frame as almost all the other tractors of that era, so in theory could I measure on one of my 122's for comparison?

Fortunately there was no serial number tag used on the 70/100, rather it is stamped into the rear axle. There are 2 different places you could find it, (Roland beat me to it)

If the frame was lengthened then the hood of the tractor would also have had to be lengthened. It doesn't look any longer so I get the feeling that they just widened the frame. No real reason to lengthen it anyway, there's plenty of room lengthwise to wedge in just about any single-cylinder engine you want :biggrin2:

The 70/100 serial number was "stamped" into the Rear End Housing on the RH side by the Foot Rest. Click on this link for some reference.... Serial Numbers. Look at pictures #2 & #3.

The 70/100 serial number range is: 65459 - 127160

Wow! I didn't know that, I was always told (by other, less reliable sources) that if the serial number plate on the rear was gone, I was out of luck. I'll look on the spot you indicated.

With that style of steering wheel it should be a model 70.

Location on a 70....

The CC Original (the first of the Cub Cadets) has it's serial number stamped into the side of the transaxle. Then the 70 and 100 also had their serial numbers stamped into the side of the transaxle. Early examples of the 71, 102, 122, and 123 tractors have the serial number stamped into the side of the transaxle, but the later versions of them have the serial number plate at the rear of the axle. The 1X4 1X5 series and 1X6 1X7 series also have the serial number plate at the back of the axle. Then early Wide Frame tractors came with the plate at the back of the axle, but for later ones it was moved forward, mounted on the side of the frame near the brake/clutch pedal. It was mounted in that same spot for the Quietlines and spread frames (82 series) and all the way to the Cyclops series of tractors. Exact location on the frame varies slightly over the years but they all remain in the general area of the brake pedal or clutch pedal on the left side of the machine.

I just realized I typed a whole paragraph just on Cub Cadet serial number location, sorry 'bout that :biggrin2::biggrin2:

No need to apologize, combined with the chart from the admin above you I'll take all the information I can get. My other two tractors are 122's, so this 70 (I'm going to start calling it that since that's the general consensus) is untrodden territory for me!

Alrighty then...

The interesting part is I remember all that info off the top of my head, along with a bunch more Cub info...
:bigthink:

Think there might be something wrong with me? :biggrin2:

Next thing I gotta memorize is the head bolt torquing pattern so I don't have to get my PDF manual :biggrin2:

That is not a sign of madness, my friend, but the surest sign of passion

So, on the right-hand side of the rear end, I found stamped some numbers. Not the numbers cast into the metal indicating the mold number, but a 5-digit number "11968"
Referencing this chart https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ead.php?t=7114 it appears to mean built in June 1961.If I read that chart right (did I?) this thing has the rear end off an original.

Something isn't right with that number, the model 70 and 100 serial numbers start at 65458, and end at 127160.

Perhaps there's an extra digit there that you didn't see?

That threw me, too, because according to the pictures the Original rear end was shaped differently, too. I'll get in there with a wire brush and a pencil and paper to see if there's something else there I missed. I will edit this post when/if I find it.

Post a pic where you found that number.

Was it on a flat rectangular or square pad near where your right foot would rest?

We tried taking pictures of the numbers, but every angle we tried blotted out some of them. It's not stamped on one of the raised squares, but vertically just behind the front of the rear end. It did occur to me, however, that I might be reading it upside down/backwards.... instead of "11968" it could be "89611" since none of the numbers are in a font that would indicate a difference.

I'm still struggling with the rear end being locked up, too. I finally got the stuck bolts in the rear and top seals off, and the fluid drained. It was dark red, with a greenish tint when the flashlight hit it while flowing, mixed with water and some thick, gritty sludge in the bottom. So, that brings another question, what fluid will I refill it with? Is it transmission fluid just the same as my pickup truck, or a special fluid?

Also, I'm sorry because I know at the beginning some of you seemed to know what was causing the lockup/opposing spin on the rear end, but I'm still confused since I don't know one gear from another. Transmissions confuse me, except for driving them normally! Is there a chart/diagram I could look at somewhere? I guess I need things explained in kid terms for now, with pictures (at least to start) if possible.

I have five Cub Cadet Tractors. If you jack the back end of each of them, and rotate the rear tires......ALL........of them will rotate the tires in the opposite direction. That is NORMAL. That is what a differential is suppose to do.

You need to got to our Technical Library Section and download the 70/100 Owners and Service Manual. In addition, there is a topic in the Library strictly on CC Lubricants for transmission.

Most recommend Case IH or Cub Cadet Hy-Tran fluid, but this is a commonly debated topic, as most other trans/hydraulic fluid will also work without issue. Whether be TSC "Traveller" brand, The "Harvest King" brand that my 107 runs with, or even the John Deere version of the fluid. They will all work and shouldn't cause any issue with the transmission, especially since you've got a gear drive. Hydros are a bit different, really all you need the fluid to do is stick to the gears and bearings, and lubricate them. Just about all brands of trans/hydro fluid will get that done no problem. (Please don't start a debate I'm just trying to state everything I've heard :Help:)

The transmission design is relatively simple, with 2 gear sets to shift, allowing for 3 forward speeds plus an idler gear for 1 reverse speed. Realistically the stuck transmission shouldn't have to do with these gears themselves, unless it happens to be stuck in a gear. To check that simply pull the top cover on the transmission where the shift lever is, look at the shifter forks (there's 2, one on each side) and make sure they both are in the center (neutral). If one isn't in neutral attempt to move it out of gear by hand.

Now it is possible that one of the 2 tabs that she shift lever slides into in order to shift the gears has broken off completely, or bent far out. They are particular weak points in the transmission, and mainly break when someone tries to force the tractor into a gear. They can be welded to add strength and keep them from bending/breaking in the future. The pic below is the shift fork area beneath the top cover. I have labeled front/rear and the tabs that I am talking about. It also shows where they should be in order to be in neutral.

Attachment 106831

If both are in neutral and everything still will not turn freely, you could be dealing with a stuck bearing, which may require tearing further into the transmission to remove and replace it. Hopefully not, though!

Here's the manual for the 70/100 tractors from the tech section: https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/c...ervice+Man.pdf

(sorry if I'm a bit hard to follow, it's hard to explain what you know if you don't know the exact names of the parts :biggrin2:)

It's a slow turning gear box, not a Masseratti transmission.
Any brand, plain old 30 to 90 weight oil is all you need.

The brake puck in the tranny may be stuck in its bore and it will keep the tractor from moving. That is normal that both wheels turn in the opposite direction when jacked up even when the brake is applied.

Lew I completely forgot about the brake (I'm used to my external disc brakes :biggrin2:), good catch on that one!

Couldn't agree more, I kinda went off into a paragraph about how most fluids will work when I really didn't need to because this is a gear drive, not a hydro.

Got into it and looked before touching. My tabs are not centered like that, but they are intact. So, it appears this one is stuck in a gear or partway there. Time for some wiggling!
The transmission section of that manual looks identical to the one for my 122's, as are the numbers molded into the metal of the housing.
I hope it's not a stuck bearing, too! I suppose, though, with the muck that was in this when I pulled the drain plug and rearmost seal, it's possible. But wouldn't a stuck bearing cause it to not turn at all?

Well, if trying to free up the shifter tabs doesn't do the trick, then I'll start work on the brakes. I"m hoping it's something simple!

If the brake puck is indeed rusted/frozen in its cylinder and you have to fix it,
you will know a lot more about Cub Cadets than you do presently.

The gear transmissions remain the same on all the Cub Cadets (other than the Original, and there are brake differences through the years). That picture I edited is actually from a Farmall Cub tractor, which is still the same transmission.

Those tabs are prone to bending, so it doesn't surprise me that they are bent. I have yet to need to repair the shifter on my 106 but I bet they are probably bent out of place a bit as well. If it is stuck in or partially in a gear, that would explain the stuck transmission. It could be that and a combination of stuck brake, too.

At this point I don't think it's a stuck bearing. Even if a bearing was stuck, the rear wheels will still spin in opposite directions because of the "spider" gears in the center of the differential. They spin independently of the rest of the differential, so even when the differential can't spin, the gears inside it can.

Good news, everyone! After using a hammer and a punch to free up the shifter tabs (gently, of course!), I attempted to remove the brake and housing to see if something there was stuck. While trying to break the pin holding the brake lever loose, with the hammer and a bigger punch, the whole rear end started moving under me. Apparently, something in the brakes was stuck, and all the hammering broke it free.
The rear end now rolls on it's own properly, not just spinning from side to side. Still stiff, but nothing a little fresh lube can't fix! Thank you to all who aided me in that mystery.
Now to clean all the gunk out of the bottom, get some new gaskets, fill it up and reattach it. Then I'll move on to the busted wires, and then to trying to spin the engine over.... hmm, might actually try that while waiting for cleaner to work and new gaskets to arrive, save a little time!
I'm sure I'll be back with more stupid questions, so stay tuned for episode two of this quirky little tractor!

Have you figured out what model engine the Te junk ski is?
The only ones I ever respected were the Cast Iron blocks.
Like HH 100, HH 120 or the later OHV engines.
IIRR anything with an "H" designation were cast Iron.
But I know little of them, as most were "done blowed up" by the time I got them.

My vote is that it's from a Massey Ferguson. In the pictures you can see that the fuel tank sits the wrong way under the hood (compared to the Kohler one) indicating that it would have run a belt drive facing sideways (like a Wheel Horse or Deere drivetrain). Massey Ferguson used the same design. The engine also matches the MF gray color.

IIRC the engines in those tractors were cast iron. If the HP can be found that would determine what it came out of, as the MF model #'s directly equal engine HP (EX: The Massey Ferguson 8 has 8 hp).

I have one Te-junk-ski that done blowed up, I got it for free already knowing it's issue. Just an aluminum block, so nothing special there. I've also got a 6hp cast iron one (it's painted orange, wonder what it came off of?) that with a carb clean, mouse nest removal, and points filing, should run. Just gotta get around to it first :biggrin2:

Okay, enough off-topic tractor talk for me :beerchug:

Somebody on a FB garden tractor page put up a picture of a Wheelhorse with that side-pulley setup. I was finally able to clean enough dirt off the engine to locate a set of numbers, stamped into the metal of the cowling above the engine's brand name tag, which would have originally been on the left side of the engine before it was turned 90 degrees to fit this Cub. The numbers read "HH100115255H" gap "SER30761" (guessing that's the serial number?) So, was this a 10HP cast iron Tecumseh?
I have yet to attempt to get the engine started, but in the process of removing the drive shaft from the rear end, I found the holes in the clutch plates to be completely worn out. They will need to be replaced. I will add some pictures of that after getting the engine out of the frame for cleaning out the gunk. Air cleaner had oil in it, so I think it needs to be inspected before I try to start it.

Yep Hh100 is a 10 Hp and a good one, various manufactures used them including Case and Deere.
I never liked the tillotson carb, I prefer a kohler or better yet, carter carb.
Good engine with tapered Timken roller bearings on the crank.

Puck??
I think you mean the brake lining retainer.
Part #3 in the parts book