Solenoid/starter replacement
 

I have a HDS 2155 with the Kohler Command 15 OHV single cylinder engine. The guy I bought it from said it wouldn’t crank, just “click”. I put a new battery in it and it fired right up, so I assumed he had a weak battery or something.

Now it’s started doing the “click” on me sometimes when I turn the key. The oil and battery dash lights come on as they should when I turn the key, but the starter doesn’t spin and I just hear a “click”. I have to try it a few times before it will turn over, or sometimes wait a few mins and then it will fire right up.

As a test, I used a screwdriver and jumped the two posts on the solenoid and the starter spins every time so I’m thinking it’s a solenoid on its last legs?

My question is can I just replace the solenoid or do I have to replace the entire starter assembly, as they appear to be made together on this engine? I’ve never seen them made like this, usually the solenoid is entirely separate from the starter…

If you had taken the time to look in the Cub parts site you would have found the answer. :biggrin2:

I mean, yes I did look at the parts diagram. But I just like having assurances before I got ordering something and find out it’s way more involved or won’t work at all. Thanks though, I feel better knowing I can spend $15 on a solenoid as opposed to $75 on the entire starter assembly

Did you check the wiring connections from the battery to solenoid? Including the ground? "Nice clean and bright" is often the remedy to poor starting and "clicking" solenoids.

All the connections look good, the red battery cable is actually brand new as well. I can get a voltmeter and test for sure before actually ordering anything though

looks like a good ol' Delco Gm starter.
Carefully take the end cap off the sol. where the wires are attached and see if the terminals and washer/contact is corroded/ pitted and if so, clean it or turn it over if possible, and give it a try, nothing to loose.
Used to do it all the time 40 yrs ago. :bigthink:

George, I got about 20 years on you. Seems like the old GM solenoids had a problem with burning those contacts. Give the bolts a half a turn and flip the washer and it was as good as new. Was an Olds driver since 56. Wish I had that car back.

Been driving bowties since '61.
The one large terminal stud for the batt-tree you can't turn unless you snip the wire and silver solder the pull-in coil wire back on.:beerchug:

I've had several 2000 series and they all had that problem.
I could never find the problem with them but they all always started eventually.

If you can jump from the small terminal to the large one with the battery cable on it and it starts there isn't anything wrong with the starter or solenoid. It's in the wiring on the tractor.

Is there anywhere in particular I should start looking in the wiring, in your experience with the 2000 series?

solenoid
 

OK ol'George. Please refresh my memory. What is a bowtie that you were driving? I am old enough to know but can't remember. Thanks and everyone have a great day. And to the OP, The old cars that I drove had a bad solenoid if you could jump the two large terminals and the engine turned over. Flipping the washer would last for a while.
Bob

What you are doing when jumping the posts on the solenoid is making the connection that the solenoid should make when you here the click. I totally disagree with your statement. The solenoid probably has burnt contacts in it that cannot carry the current to turn the starter intermittently.

Jumping the 2 large terminals, takes the contacts out of the picture.
You are putting current directly to the starter MOTOR input wire,
but while the starter will run, if it is good, the overrunning clutch/gear will not slide into the flywheel because no power is applied to the induction windings of the pull in coil causing the plunger to move it.

If you apply a jumper (screwdriver) to the large terminal ( battery terminal)
and to the small terminal and it starts, the problem is usually in the wiring circuit, as it's not feeding battery power to the starter from the switch

The starter assembly is a starter motor, switch and induction solenoid, that engages the gear/overrunning clutch into the flywheel.

so it is really does 3 things.
the plunger moves engaging the gear into the flywheel
and while doing so, it also pushes the contact washer to connect the the 2 large terminals together allowing current to the starter motor, allowing it to run

Bowtie: affectionate name for chevrolet of any years/models.
As "blue oval" is for ford

Ok that makes since George. If I jumper the pegs the starter spins but won’t engage the engine until I put the key in the “start” position, then it will fire right up. So I guess the wiring is working as it should?

When you turn it to start, you should hear a "thunk" not a feeble "click"
if it is a thunk, then the sol is throwing the gear into the flywheel as it should, but the contacts in "cup" on the end of the solenoid are burnt/corroded from usage and are not making contact to make the starter spin.
So take the starter off and if it is like a Delco, the Bakelite cup is retained with 2 screws. remove them and if the cup seems to not come off easily like there are wires on the inside holding it on,-- they are. :biggrin2:

Put the screws back in and remove the nuts on large stud with the bat terminal, and the small one holding the start wire stud on. This should allow the studs to stay attached to the wires inside but allow the cup to slide off the studs.
note: sometimes you have to also remove nut on the large stud going to the starter wire, but since I've never worked on your model of starter I can only advise how the Delco starters are built starting after the war. (WWII)
With the cup off, it should be obvious what the problem is.
on the Delco's, one used to be able just purchase a kit, including the cup with studs and contact washer, who knows today what is avail. most just want to replace the complete starter assy.
with a little thought, one can usually flip the movable contact washer over and turn the studs *180 in their square pockets and renew the contact area.
All that said even if is not fixable, you will get a good knowledge of how it works.
Wished I had worked on your model, so I could tell you 100% just get kit or a new sol. or repair yours. :bigthink:

In that case, I would call the sound I am hearing a “thunk” instead of a “click”. I’ll check into it and see if I can get the solenoid apart and clean/rearrange the washers and contacts.

I did find a replacement solenoid by Caltric for $20, that’s not too bad (I’m not sure if Caltric is a good brand or not).

I put a new solenoid on it and it and now its totally dead no lights or anything. But I know it has power because I can jumper the posts on the solenoid and it turns over. I double checked all the wiring and then magically I had lights again, but it was still doing the "thunk" and not turning over.

My neighbor happened to be over and he thinks it's something with the ignition switch itself. Could it be as simple as that?

Sounds like something is not wired right. If you like.......I can send you a Factory Wiring Diagram. All I need is your Chassis Serial Number so you get the right diagram.

I'll see if I can get you the serial tomorrow once it's light out. The wiring seems pretty straight forward from what I can tell. It is weird that sometimes I can just hold the key in the start position and I will hear the thunk, turnafter a minute or so it will just then over magically. It's very weird

I've had bad ign switch and/or pto switches cause intermittent issues that are hard to diag b/c they never show up when you're running the test light.

Here is the serial number: 362116

Also, as a test, I tried jumping the red wire post on the solenoid (hot from battery) to the small blue wire (from ignition switch), and it fired right up immediately. I had the key in the run position, not start.

So to summarize the issue so you don't hafta re-read all the posts, sometimes when I turn the key I get nothing (no dash lights). Sometimes when I turn the key I hear a thunk (which I assume is the Bendix kicking in) but no starter spin. Jumping the two large posts on the solenoid makes it spin but it won't start unless the key is in "start". Jumping the hot post to the blue start wire makes it start if it just have the key on "run". Does that help narrow it down?

Wiring diagram sent. Check your email.

Thanks Roland, I'll look it over. Hopefully I can figure it out.

Well the ignition switch definitely bad burned contacts I'm surprised it worked at all. Replaced it but still having same issue. I'll keep looking...

Ok I've narrowed it down to an issue with the blue ignition wire to the solenoid. If I unplug it and turn the key, it reads 12v. But while plugged in I'm only getting 7v on the terminal. If I jumper 12v from the battery cable to that connector it fires up. I'm going to try replacing the spade connector on the blue wire and see if that fixes the issue. It just very well be loose or rusty or both.

There is your problem. With a DVM, trace back to where you have a constant 12V on that circuit. Once you find where it drops to 7V, fix that issue.

Basic Troubleshooting 101

Does anyone know if the starter from a newer Kohler engine would work? I like the idea of having the solenoid and starter being separated instead of bolted together.

I would think that if the bolt pattern matches up to the engine and the Bendix has the correct teeth count, it should work? Then I can just wire up the solenoid and bolt it to the frame elsewhere.

Honestly, I think you should either try to properly repair your existing starter/solenoid unit or replace the entire unit. If this were mine, I'd try repairing but if I find this too challenging, I'd simply replace it given that a new starter/solenoid can be had for less than $100 if I'm correct.

To jerry-rig a starter with a separate solenoid would likely be more trouble than it is worth. After all, to reuse the solenoid that you already have separated from starter would be mute.....this solenoid that you have looks to be a plunger type and needs to be mated with the starter in order to work properly.

Yes I think I will replace the entire thing. Doesn't look like it's made OEM anymore so aftermarket will be the way to go. Found one for $70 I'll take a chance on it.

I had success with DB Electrical. I replaced my starter/generator a couple years ago....so far so good!

https://www.dbelectrical.com/?mrkgad...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

They sell also sell thru Amazon and eBay... you might have cost savings going thru these giants!