127 oil film on motor **SOLVED**
 

Hi All.

I hope everyone is well. I have an issue with my 127 as it has been really hard to start lately and I noticed an oily film all over the outside of the block. When I do get it started it runs and idles like it's brand new but it smokes like a steamer when first starting it.

I pulled the plug and installed a new autolite with the correct gap. The old plug wasn't just wet with gas but had a pretty oily sludge around the electrode pocket. The new plug didn't help with the really hard starts but once it's running you would never know there is any issue whatsoever. It seems pretty apparent that oil is getting into the cylinder past the rings
I'm not sure if its the oil rings or a valve? I'm guessing its not a valve but I'm not sure. I had the head off before I put it back together after I bought it and the cylinder looked really good and didn't show much in terms of scoring or wear.

I filed the points just for kicks but I can't see how points and timing would have anything to do with oil in the cylinder and oil film on the outside of the engine.?

Anything I should check or look at? It's a Kohler k301.

https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...1&d=1698159260

There could be one, or many things in play causing your woes, but pertaining to the oil film and smoke after startup, one of the easiest things to check out would be the crankcase breather.
It is supposed to maintain a slightly negative crankcase pressure, but if it's clogged, damaged, installed incorrectly, etc. that can cause positive crankcase pressure and force oil up past the rings.

Thanks a lot Ironman for the info. I didn't even think to check the breather. I have a mission and will report back findings. :ThumbsUp:

The breather has to be one of the most often forgotten features of a Kohler engine!

Partial update for anyone interested.

The plate that has "top" marked on it with the weep hole at the bottom was installed upside down by whomever had it before me. I have a gasket set coming tomorrow and will report back how things go.

The air cleaner had a decent amount of oil in it and was pretty dirty and it was new probably 4 hours of operation ago. Oil was definitely going places it shouldn't and blowing everywhere externally as well. I may have to take the carb apart to clean the junk out of it.

Thanks for the update. Amazing that people are interested enough to
take things apart but not enough to put top at the top. You would think
the vent pointing up would have been a clue.
For what it is worth, even all put back together correctly I have had
those breathers leak at the gaskets slightly. I have taken to putting a THIN
layer of sealer at the gasket contacts. I am talking 1/10 of paper thin.
This has helped alot.

Ken

Problem area for sure as the cover plate is easily distorted by overtightening of the nut on the fastening stud.
Nearly every Cub I have dealt with has this issue.
It is kind of a PITA to deal with 2 gaskets and multiple parts when reassembling it.

That as well as other areas like the governor shaft bushing and point pushrod leaking slight amounts of oil is what leads to the mess in general being blown around by the flywheel fan blades.

Before I put everything back together I wanted to adjust the valves if needed and the manual says to check them cold at TDC. I am assuming I can line up the hash mark with a "T" by it in the site hole on the flywheel and that will suffice?

If that is indeed the case I have some serious valve adjustment issues because I can't even get a nine thousandths feeler gauge in the exhaust or intake valve stem? Can they be that far out or am I not measuring something right?

https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...1&d=1698790941

First I would make sure that your engine is timed exactly where it
is supposed to be. You may have already done that, just checking.
I personally would not find TDC with with the T mark but visually at
the cylinder. If the head is still on put screwdriver or something long
in the spark plug hole and rotate engine to TDC.
The most important thing is to make sure you are at TDC on the
compression stroke. Both your valves should be closed at this point.
Now you can set you gap at the tappets and the valves.

Ken

see where your points are. you can always do a static timeing test.

When looking at the springs on the valves there is a little hole in the block, rotate the engine till you see the piston pass by, that will help.

Hi Everyone.

Thank you for the replies and knowledge. I wanted to give you a little update on progress. I got the points set using a test light method I learned from reading this forum. I also adjusted the valves and the exhaust valve was somewhere around .004 instead of the 18-20 it should be. I put everything back together and even managed to get the pto clutch removed while I was at it. What a bugger that was but mission accomplished.

I put everything together and tried to fire it up and the same thing as before, it fires like crazy but just won't take off on its own. I bought a new carburetor off of ebay a couple of years ago and a new sediment bowl recently. I decided to pull the carburetor off again and take it all apart and this is what I found. Also the sediment bowl doesn't shut off fully when it's valved off which is disappointing. I am so tired of cheap garbage parts.

The gasket for the carburetor bowl is disintegrating and the funny thing is I only run non oxygenated gas in all my small engines. I doubt I'll just be able to get a gasket for the carb bowl so can someone point me in the direction of a QUALITY carburetor and sediment bowl that actually totally shuts? I'm a buy once cry once type guy so I don't care if I have to spend more money.

https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...1&d=1698876644

Looks pretty normal from here.
Clean it well and put it back together.
Adjust as per the manual,
If that's an off shore carb, chances are younwill not be able to get a kit for it.

some engines start better at different throttle settings try playing with the throttle when starting

Well those little specs you see at the bottom of the tin and in the bowl are coming from the gasket and that will certainly plug up jets.

can of carb cleaner. if you have a gallon soak carb 10 to 15 minutes. thats if a Carter. if its a throw away do just that. carb kits at sponsers , napa , isave tractors.

This may not be the case but do you have the original carb? I would
put all my efforts into that if possible. It would be a Carter. The chiny
carbs are, well lets see, suspect I would say. It may be your only choice
though I realize.

Ken

Were there 2 gaskets under that bowl?

These work well. also 690612

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23506609658...Bk9SR7jA_oXyYg


https://www.ebay.com/itm/27611938016...UAAOSwuOtlGqSt

I found original carb and I'm not sure if it's oem or not but there are some numbers on it.

No, just one disintegrating one.

Thank you. Those look like quality for sure.

https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...1&d=1698944444

https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...1&d=1698944444

Looks like the real deal but I think it should say Carter on it? If it is
the original Carter the kit for it would be 25-757-01. I hope it is as
I think you will have better luck in the long haul with the OEM carb.
I know I certainly have.

Ken

Hi Ken.

I don't know what numbers are supposed to be stamped on it to know if it's the original but my gut tells me it is. Did Kohler use any other manufacturer other than Carter? The carb feels pretty chunky compared to the chinesium one that I took off it.

Hey Doc, I don't know the answer to your question about other carbs
being used on these engines. Hopefully someone else will know that.
I have 4 carbs here for K301s and they all have the Carter Model N
stamped in them.
Compared to your pictures they are similar but not exact as you see.

Ken

Attachment 113882

Attachment 113883

Your carb is a Kohler carburetor.The later ones did away with the Carter.

Will the same kit work on the later ones or do you have to look it up
under something else?

Ken

The later Kohler and Carter carbs it will work on, it will not work on the Walro marked ones...

Thank you sir.
I'll order a Kohler rebuild kit for it.

Thanks I guess my carb is a Kohler which I can order a carb kit for. :)

Well, well, well, I guess I have egg on my face.

The good news:

Timing is set perfectly using the test light procedure I learned reading this forum.

The valve breather issue is solved and baffle plate is correctly installed.

The valves are properly adjusted and the exhaust valve was way out of spec.

The problem of it firing like crazy but not taking off on its own is solved but not by doing any of the above. More on that to follow.




The bad news:

I had ordered a new chinesium carb just to figure out the starting problem. I opened the carb up and neither choke shaft would work due to the way they pressed the plate on the end of the shaft. I pulled the shaft out of my old carb and it actually fit the new carb but not before I had to hunt for the tiny indent ball that fell out when I removed the shaft.

The throttle shaft had to be swapped out as well due to the way the threaded governor shaft coupling was set up. I could have made it work but it was easier to just use my old one if it was going to work. I did have to swap the the actual throttle plate out as my old one was too small for the new venturi.

Mental drum roll as I turned the gas on and allowed the bowl to fill up. Pulled the choke and turned it over and the same old crap! Fire like crazy but won't take off on its own! Frustration level goes to DEFCON 2. I put my test light on the coil ignition wire and turned the key and it lit up as it did before when I checked it.?! ¿©§

I put my meter on it and 12.7 volts. Spark, ignition power, gas, timing set right, valves adjusted, breather issue solved, all check. Out of curiosity or maybe because I'm a commercial, industrial electrical contractor I decided to hook up the test light again to the coil and turn the key it lights up. Turn the key to engage the starter and it stays lit up and the motor fires like crazy but won't stay running, release the key and scratch my head like Stan Laurel.

I then had a suspicion I wanted to confirm. I ran a wire into the bat + and stripped the end of it and turned the key to start and touched the wire to the ignition side of the coil and it fired right off immediately and stayed running! I pulled the wire off the coil and it died instantly.

So what was happening was the ignition switch would hold contact for maybe half a second after releasing the key from the starter engage position and then drop power to the coil instead of maintaining it. I'm a little embarrassed to admit this but if someone else can learn from my stupidity than I'm willing to swallow my pride and share with the forum. The key switch went bad and I have a new one inbound.

The silly thing is it was electrical the whole time and that's what I do for a living but I've learned some new things and tuned the 301 to where it should be. Thank you everyone for all your help and I appreciate it. I am buying a 169 so I look forward to the challenges that come with that.

When one quits learning, they quit living.:bigthink:
Thanks for sharing, I'm sure it will help others :beerchug:

Well that's beauty. Think of all the cool stuff we learned here and now
you have a running tractor. Thanks for taking us along. Glad your running.

Ken

Great story, alot of other tinkerers will benefit from the trips & slips. overthinking is the enemy, stay with basics of fuel & ignition and the world will turn.

I hope it'll help someone in the future, thanks for the help.

Thanks Ken.
There is something uniquely rewarding about solving problems and sticking with it even though it should have been easier to solve.

Yes sir, thanks for the input.



On an aside I have a question I would like to ask you all. I pulled the spark plug to help find TDC and looked in with a flashlight as I moved the shaft and I couldn't see the top of the piston? Nothing was moving up or down it was just a carbon coated surface. I have never seen that in a small engine before. I thought the piston is just below the plug hole? What am I missing?

Your not missing anything, some engines have the spark plug hole over a valve,
so you will have to turn the engine over 2x before you see a valve move up /down.:beerchug:

Thanks George.

I was wondering about that so I kept turning the shaft and still didn't see any movement. I must have quit just before the valve popped up.

Does this help?

Awesome. Thanks Ironman that would explain it.

As you can see none of the plug locations are over the piston.