New Guy Just Picked up a 149 for $75
 

I am new to real garden tractors. I was pushed over the edge a few weeks ago after a late-model junk "lawn tractor" nearly got me hurt when the front axle broke for no reason and nearly rolled me down a steep side hill.

I picked up this 149 today for $75, I was told that it last ran 2 years ago when the engine stripped out all 4 of the mounting hole threads. It came with a 48"? deck that is a little rough but the spindles seem fine, a hydraulic lift 3-PT setup and what I guess I should call a sleeve hitch adapter. Only the deck has and pitting rust, the tractor itself has really light surface rust only. I haven't even run the serial number yet to see what year it is.

I am looking forward to gaining tons on knowledge off here, i have a lot of mechanical experience, but very little in hydraulics and "real garden tractors."

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/ajs96/149a.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/ajs96/149b.jpg


I have tons of questions I will be asking over the next couple weeks. One off the top of my head is I cannot get the thing to free wheel at all even after manually pressing the little valve buttons under the access plate, what do I need to do...towing the thing around is a little inconvenient.


Right now I have the motor out on the bench and I am considering at least throwing some rings on it while I have it out, I might even go the whole master rebuild kit but I am not sure about the machining involved on the little motors. Would it be wise to at least put a new head gasket and new OEM sized rings in it or is the "normal" thing to do just to rebuild the whole engine?


I was absolutely not surprised how the engine pulled away from the frame when i saw that these motors are mounted directly to the frame into a cast aluminum oil pan??? That just seems crazy to me and I think I am going to have to fabricate something a little more reasonable when i put the motor back in. These type of failures have to be common on these, right?

I also picked up a 1979 JD 212 w/47" deck for $275 last week that needed shockingly little done to it. I am going to fix-up both and either keep them both or keep my "favorite." The idea is that the two are radically different and i would gain all sorts of experience about these classics along the way.

That is not common on these models, and there's nothing 'crazy' about the engine mounting. Someone probably didn't tighten the bolts or forgot the lock washers and the bolts vibrated out. Get a used cast-iron oil pan and put it back together and you'll be all set.

:Welcome2:

Glad to have you here, and I'm sorry to say it, but I have a feeling you have the early stages of GT-itis. It never goes away, and my experience with the affliction is that it gets progressively worse, in short order, I might add.

"I am going to fix-up both and either keep them both or keep my "favorite.""

(I bet you keep both....)

I suppose i use the word "crazy" strictly because i have honestly never heard or run across a setup similar to that in such a high vibration environment. I didn't know cast iron was available, i iwll probably take your suggestion and see if i can track one down. I am still learning what is cross-compatible.

For now, i drilled and tapped the two meaty mounts on the pan with 1/2" and the tighter ones with 7/16"

Hmmm...that's funny...that's what my wife says too :bigthink:

Welcome to OCC! Congrats on your 149, and good luck with it. :beerchug:

Welcome to OCC. You got a great deal on that 149, especially with the options and accessories it has.

On the JD 212, check out www.weekendfreedommachines.com - it's the premier site for the older JD lawn and garden tractors and equipment.

75$ IH Cub Cadet 149
 

Happy you are here at Only Cub Cadets.net. .:Cub6: I dont think for a second,knowing that IH Cub Cadets are top of the line, to sink 3-4 hundred in to it since you got it so cheep. Then you may get a better compairison to the green 212 tractor! Any ways, Folks are willing to help and realy know their way around these tractors! But I agree, keep them both so you dont have to switch implements around so much!:biggrin2.gif:

IH Cub Cadets used the same motor mount system from 1963 when they built the 70 and 100 thru the fall of 1974. Garden tractor pulling bunch still use the same system. My 149 is one later ones produce. It came with a cast iron oil pan. Yours should have a cast iron pan too. There is no need to fabricate the motor mounts. I hammer my 149 when I pull a moldboard plow. The bolts may work loose or streach some if you use cheap bolts. I would not use 1/2 inch bolts in the oil pan. Odds are you will need to make the holes larger in the frame. Thats a no-no in my book. You could mess up the motor-driveshaft-rear end alinement when you go back to the right oil pan and bolts.

The best thing to do is to buy a good used cast iron oil pan and at least use grade 5 bolts. One of the sponsors at the top of the page can help you out with a good oil pan.

I wouldn't throw anything into the motor until you have it running. Your wasting your money by just replacing the rings. I would invest some money in a Kohler Service Manual if you don't have one. They show how to check items like the the bore, crank journal and connecting rod journal. The manual has the specs for what is allowed before the motor needs bored and undersize the crank journal.

All my motors go to a local automotive machine shop to have necessary machine work done.

ajs96,

:Welcome2: Congratulations on your purchase of your :Cub6:!!! I'm jealous of all the extras you got for the price!!! Once I get a cub running, I always run some Marvel Mystery Oil in them for a while to clean them out then I change the oil out with fresh and see how they run before I determine if any major engine work needs to be done. I think you got a sweet deal so if you have to put some $$ into the 149 before it is all said and done, you will still have a solid tractor that is way cheaper and a whole lot stronger than anything else that you would purchase out there for that same amount. BTW: Your 149 was built in '73, here is a site to look up the serial # if you haven't already been there yet:

http://www.ihcubcadet.com/IHCCFAQ/IH...WORKS%20SN.htm

Great to have you in the forum:beerchug:

Cub Cadet 123

It is definitely aluminum. The person i picked up this 149 from was definitely a "Cub Cadet guy" that admitted he just didn't have the time anymore. In fact, i counted at least three other 60-70's IH Cub Cadet GT's while i was there, one of them was in a shop and looked like it was off the showroom floor. It is possible that this machine might have been victim to a parts swapping. When i started pulling the engine at home i kept looking for a starter only to check photos and realize that it uses a starter/generator, which was not present...but he says i can swing by and pick one up from him (allegedly).

It was obvious to me that the pan had been rremoved once already and it's also very possible that some grade 2 junk bolts were used when mounting. About 70% of the engine serial number tag is missing, i am going to try and run what's left to varify that it is even the appropriate engine (appears correct though).

I did download the .pdf from this site on the engine and i will at least measure the the crankshaft journal before i try and run it. The rod seems to slide lateral/horizontal along the journal a little too easy, but i also admittedly know next to nothing about small engines and this might be normal. I also found the oil slinger to be marred and the bits from the marred slinger were found on the bottom of the pan, how that could have happened i really don't know. It turns over very smoothly, has compression, and i visually ensured the valves are doing what they are supposed to do.

That is normal for the rod to slide on the crank easily. If it didn't, the engine would seize. If there are chunks of the dipper missing, DO NOT run the engine. If that breaks off it will ruin your day. You are going to need a new rod before you try to run it.

There was no significant structual damage done to it, no way it will break, but i do wonder how in the world it became marred up, i will post a photo later today sometime to get some opinions.

Each ding on it is a place for a fatigue crack to start that will eventually cause the dipper to break off. Aluminum develops fatigue cracks very easily. Any structural damage to a connecting rod is significant. Even when I install a new rod, I usually go so far as to carefully file/sand any sharp edges before I install it.

Also, like you said, it would be a good idea to figure out how the rod got all dinged up. Something had to cause that, and hopefully your pictures will show it.

Is the balance gears still in the motor? My 149 had a snap ring come off the balance gear causing the gear to come the shaft. Here is what the oil slinger looks like:
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...149/motor6.jpg
This is what I found in the oil pan:
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...49/Motor-5.jpg

Those are your balance gears... :(

Everything appears to be as it should, meaning nothing is obviosuly broken. I have been turning it over rapidly by hand and all seems well.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...IMG_4325sm.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...IMG_4322sm.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...IMG_4328sm.jpg

There's blue RTV all over the gasket surface, so someone was probably in there before you got it. Perhaps they removed whatever was hitting the rod. Try to wiggle the balance gears with your fingers; if they wobble, I would either replace the bearings in them or remove them altogether. That rod needs to be replaced. That is a failure waiting to happen.

Yeah, i had mentioned in my reply to you earlier that it was obvious someone had already been in the motor and that possibly a cast iron pan was swapped out.

I am glad you brought up the balance gears...i did notice that the lower gears wobbles a ridiculous amount and the upper gears wobbles too, just not as badly. Honestly, it wobbles so bad that i assumed it had to what it was supposed to do, but that pretty much flies in the face of any other engine allowances. I just took a quick video, click below...i am guessing this pretty bad, huh?

EDIT: I just did about ten minutes of reading on the balance gears, quite strange. They will certainly be coming out. If the bearings are destroyed in the balance gears this badly, it leads me further down the road wondering if a full rebuild will be in order.


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...GearWobble.jpg

I used to have a 1650, and when I pulled the pan to change a leaky gasket, I found balance gears that were just as wobbly as those. The bearings in them have an extremely hard life. In my case, the rest of the engine was in excellent condition and needed no other work.

It's possible one or more of the rollers from the bearing came out and was floating around in the oil and hitting the dipper. Those were probably small enough to just drain out with the oil during an oil change.

Look to me in the picture that there are a few teeth in the balance gear that are chipped or maybe thats the lighting

It's funny you say thought because when i watched the video after i posted it i thought the same thing...so much so that i went out to the garage to look. No chipped teeth, just the lighting.

I suppose i just got even deeper into the good 'ol Kohler 14hp.

Well, i thought i would just run out to the garage and pull the balance gears, but no such luck. The lower gear is very simple to remove, but the top one is a no go on a 14hp.

There is no way that upper gear is going to come out unless either the crank is removed or the 2-3cm iron nipple is cut off the wall of the block. It is at least 7-8mm short of being able to be removed as is. The nipple i am talking about can be seen on the bottom wall of the photo in my earlier post, just to the right of the balance gear.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...MG_4325sme.jpg

You can't cut that off...that's a bolt hole for the starter/generator bracket. You basically have two options:

1. Use a sharp cold chisel and hammer to break that gear on the thin side between the webs, clean out all the shards, add a magnetic drain plug, and hope no shrapnel got where it shouldn't have.

2. Take out the crank and do it the right way.

I have done #1 but would recommend #2 since you need to replace the rod anyway; you'll be halfway there. That way you can measure the crankpin and bore and piston and determine if you can get by with a set of rings or if you need an overbore and oversize piston. I would also replace the governor gear and cross shaft and brass nut if you take it apart that far.

I was being facetious about cutting off the nipple...but i am certainly going with option #2, i don't have time to redo things these days so it needs to be done right the first time. I'll start going through the Kohler manual and tear it down in the next couple days whenever i can find a couple of hours to burn. If i can stay out of a machine shop i wwill be happy, that is my new goal.

Yes, do locate a cast iron pan.

I had one bolt come out of mine (K301 12hp in a 128) after about 20 years of use, I discovered that I had an aluminum pan. It looked like someone had done a helicoil on it before.

I tried to cheap out and get another aluminum one from an eBay dude that promised the "holes were just fine". Well, they were not. I ended up getting a cast iron pan, used new grade 8 bolts and lock washers, new pan gasket, and a thin film of "Ultra Blue" Permatex sealer on the pan and the motor bottom.

It's 100% now and will be for another 20 years or more.

I agree with Goony. Get a cast iron oil pan, you won't regret it.

I did go ahead and pick up a cast iron pan off of ebay for about $20 including shipping. It's pretty amazing the weight and burly difference between the aluminum and the cast iron.

The 149 is currently a little bit busy being completely torn down. This is from a few nights ago, but it's now down to only a frame. I never could get the hydraulics to work correctly with the drill (my other posting) and that worries me a little bit, but i am going forward with it.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...6/_MG_2002.jpg

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to more! :beerchug:

Since i now have it down to just the frame/hydro/rear-end, i have have a few more questions. Every single linkage related to the hydro/tranny just seems really sloppy to me.

I have run across a thread where is discusses shimming one of the pivot points, but would it be good to shim all the linkages to tighten them up or is there a certain amount slip that is necessary?

There is short video below showing slop in the hydro linkage as well as the 3-pt/deck mechanism. What is the purpose of the removable end link where the rear of the cylinder hooks up?

I am going to have at least a few more questions about the function of a few things, i am not sure if it's best to just post them all at once or drop them one-by-one.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5.../IMG_4397s.jpg

Click Picture Below for Linkage Video:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...h_Linkages.jpg

So if you remove the ballence gears what affect does that have on the moter if any ?

cut and pasted:


For most single cylinder Kohler engines, balance gears isn't really necessary.

Leaving them out shouldn't have a noticeable effect on engine vibrations, but they do help to reduce engine vibrations somewhat. So if you choose to reinstall or leave them in an engine that will never turn more than 4,000 rpms (this is the maximum rpms for pulling in stock classes or doing ordinary yard work), make sure that the bearings in the [balance] gears and the stub shafts that they spin on are in good condition. If the bearings are worn and if the balance gears wobble, they'll wear the crankshaft gear teeth and they could break, possibly destroying the engine. By the way - you can get the balance gears alignment tool (timing gage) from your local Kohler engine dealer. The part number is 10355 or Y-357. It's much easier to use this tool when aligning the balance gears in time with the crankshaft. See the drawing to the right for correct identification of this tool.

Once, just for curiosity, after I've rebuilt a 12hp (K301) Kohler engine, I've ran the engine with the balance gears installed. Then I took them out to see if the engine would vibrate more. (It wasn't a lot of work to remove the gears. I just removed the oil pan, snap rings, washers and spacers, rotated the crankshaft a certain way, and then lifted the gears right out.) Anyway, I found that without the balance gears, the engine vibrated EXACTLY the same as when the gears were installed! Makes ya wonder why Kohler installs them in the first place. ????

Thanks for the info ajs96 !