Ethanol aaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!
 

How many people here hate ethanol as much as I do?

Cleaning out yet another gunked up carb from this so called fuel.

Thanks
Darren

Yeah, I hear you...we've had a number of things that worked fine with no carb problems for 30 years until the ethanol was added, and now a lot of plastic and rubber parts that were fine for 30+ years shrink and fall apart. I hope the manufacturers of the carb kits start making them out of ethanol-compatible materials, or we are all going to be rebuilding our carbs every couple of years. The same needs to happen with rubber fuel line materials...I haven't found a brand that doesn't get hard in a year or so with today's gas.

Kwik Trip Ethanol free recreational gas cures all of that..:biggrin2.gif:

I had the same thing happen to me, cost me a few hundred for all the work to clean everything and get it all running good. Since I have been running E-free gas and it is a HUGE difference..

I use non oxygenated premium in all small engines and never worry about carbs or green gas because there's no ethanol in it

no ethanol gas
 

All the gas in town by me has a minimum 10% ethanol. People claim to have tested this 10% ethanol and found it to run up to 18%! Just heard word of a town near me that is getting in non ethanol gas God i hope its true!

I usually run 10 to 20% ethanol in my Cubs. The 0nly problem I have with ethanol fuel is hgher fuel useage because air-fuel ratio is lower for ethanol/gas fuel vs. straight gas. My Cubs make more power on ethanol/gas fuel than straight or green colored gas.

Ethanol blended gas has been around since early 1980s. Back them it was call Biogas. More than likely the gunk you find in your carbs is the the deposits from pre ethanol gas. Main culprit is good old mtb that big oil thought the best thing since slice cheese. Good old mtb will leave deposits in your fuel system and ethanol will clean the deposits inside your fuel system.

Who did the test???
Can You post the results from the lab that did the test?
How was the test done?
There are cheap testing units that you can buy. Those are joke in my book.

Several things I notice is running premium or green gas is the motor is done on power and your wasting money on the so called good gas.

Gas has change big time in the last 30 years. Good old mtb is a example of one of the changes. There are several additives added to your fuel. Those additives plug the fuel injector(s) in my Impala. The shop that fix my Impala said bp fuel has the most additives in their fuel. Most rubber fuel lines and carb kits are made outside this country. It is hard to say what materials they use.

The biggest problem I see goes back to fuel storage. Fuel stored in metal cans and stored on a cold damp floor will atrack moisture no mater what type of fuel is in the can. Stone and dirt floors wil compound the problem. A fuel container needs be able to be sealed so vapors can't excape. Most small motor manufactures want the home owner to buy enough fuel to last only 30 days. The old bulk fuel tank sometimes may be good for your autos....not for your small motors.

A fuel shut off valve is a must in a fuel system. I like to shut the fuel off and let the motor run 45 to 60 seconds before I shut the motor down for the day.

Using a fuel stablizer is a must too. Two good ones are the one made by Briggs and Stratton and Sta-Bil.

i don't buy into ethanol at all.........
 

You can show me all the pro ethanol propaganda one wants and I still HATE ethanol. Just as Matt said we have had tractors here for years that ran fine and carbs didn't continually gunk up prior to ethanol fuel. As for ethanol just cleaning out the old lines and loosening old gunk I don't buy into that either. My 1614 power king had the carb and tank cleaned before last winter. While in storage for 4 months the new gas "ethanol" that was added to it from the station to a clean plastic gas can and put directly into the power kings tank a week before storage turned to gelled gunk in under 2 months. Went to the storage barn and started the tractors and all ran but for the power king. Had to re-clean the carb as the ethanol fuel gelled and plugged the carb and stuck the float. (This was a different power king than the one I am working on now.)

I can assure all that when Dad could get gas from the local station with no ethanol in it we didn't have anywhere near the issues with the many garden tractors fuel systems that we do now, not even close! I also take the word of the small engine mechanics in the area and the horror stories they tell me of the modern gas "containing ethanol" in everything from chainsaws, weed eaters, tillers, and other small engine tools. As one of them told me, the theory of ethanol just loosening and cleaning the old gunk "pre-existing" in the fuel system is bunk also. Reason being these 2 year old and newer machines that are packing the repair room have never seen any other fuel except the ethanol!

We also didn't add fuel shut offs to every single garden tractor we ran across because it wasn't necessary.

As for using ethanol laden fuel up within 30 days of purchase, I would agree as that being a great idea. Funny we didn't worry much about using it up that quick pre-ethanol.

As for one of the people who tested the percentage of ethanol in our 10% ethanol he is a local chainsaw and other small engine equipment dealer. He has some sort of tester that I believe he said cost in the neighborhood of $1,800 dollars. We were conversing about this subject while he showed me the ruined carb in my stihl weedeater. He has been in business 20 plus years and has never had anywhere near the fuel related issues on old and new machines alike as he has since the ethanol takeover.

I know I won't change the ethanol lovers mind with my little rant, just remember stock up on sea foam, stabil, inline fuel shut offs, fuel filters, and mark your calendar for fuel expiration dates (30 days or less lol) and hey you might be ok.

take care
Darren


Ethanol the big yellow lie........
Don't drink the corn laden kool aid........

Dad has run E85 in his 782's for years. No problems.

He also has his 74 Cuda running on E85. No problems.

I love what ethanol has done to our farm economy! You can't imagine what gas would cost today without it.

Was there any fuel stablizer added to the fuel?
Name of fuel stablizer if you added to fuel?

When I used to work in a shop the following questions were ask to owner:
How old is the fuel?
How do you store your fuel?
Where do you get your fuel from?
The majority of the time the answer(s) I get are fuel older than 30 days...one had filled their bulk gas tank 8 months ago. fuel came from their bulk tank....cheapest fuel they could find.
How many of those customers pratice good fuel storage?
Better question...How many shops tell their customers they need to change the way they store fuel?
How many customers will listen and change their ways?

All my Cub Cadets and small motors with a seperate carb and fuel tank have a fuel shut off from the factory.

I just check a Briggs and Stratton training manual. I used to teach a small motor class. It had a area in the book talking about 30 day gas rule. Publisher date was 1997. I've been doing the 30 day rule for 8 years. I was having problems with my 2 cycle motors in the middle of the summer (late June thru early August). Anytime I replace the old fuel with new fuel the 2 cycle motors ran great. I desided to try that with all my small motors (2 and 4 cycle). I haven't had any problems since I went to the 30 day rule.
Another interresting thing I notice was when you started to pour 2 cycle fuel in the motor's fuel tank it was straight gas for a few ounces...them the gas oil mixture came out. Shaking the fuel container mix gas and oil so the motor got the right mixture.

If this happens with 2 cycle gas it has to be happening to 4 cycle gas.

Biggest question I have how did the customers and store their fuel?
How old is the fuel?
Can you tell us the brand and model of this $1800 tester. Shops in my area are lucky to spend $50 on a testor.

I have a 70-100-149-Simplicity Landlord and Troy Bult tiller that have 4 cycle motors and a Lawn Boy (1985), Stihl chainsaw (1994), Stihl blower (1999) and a Echo weed eater (2006) that have 2 cycle motors. None of my small motors have any fuel related problems.

I don't need a calendar for fuel expiration date. The first of the month is when the old fuel (2 and 4 cycle) is added to my Suburban.

ethanol
 

As I stated before....... The small engines I have been around had a LOT less issues with fuel before ethanol. The old gas didn't spoil like milk for us after 30 days, a lot less gummed up carbs, wasn't continually buying expensive additives for the $1.75 gas like we have to for this $3.00 ethanol. My chainsaws, weed eaters, lawn mowers, and etc. had less issues with the old gas also.

As for ethanol saving the common consumer money, I don't buy into that a bit either. Read the z-facts on ethanol subsidies. Look at how ethanol drives up the price of corn. Take away the subsidies and tax breaks, electric rate breaks, and natural gas breaks most all ethanol plants receive and tell me how many ethanol plants there would be? I will tell you, a minute fraction of what there are now.

There is a ethanol plant a mile from where I am right now. Locally nicknamed the stink plant. My relatives who farm thousands of acres love it, most grain farmers around here do. I would also if I truly believed ethanol was the answer, but I don't.

When you look at the influence it has on rising grocery costs, and the subsidy cost to the tax payer not to mention the price of fuel itself (as ethanol in my area at least has done nothing to lower gas prices) it is a losing cause to the non farming consumer.

Does e-85 and e-25 cost a little less at the pump? Sure does, but everyone I know who has done a honest mpg check vs. e-10 or regular gas saves nothing due to loss of mpg.

As I said earlier if ethanol works for you GREAT! As for me I am heading out to check the towns gas station that supposedly has non ethanol fuel, God I hope it's true.

Take care
Darren

good article on new e-15
 

Check out this article from OPEI on the new e-15. Funny how even 15% ethanol isn't recommended on most small engines.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-rele...ou-1334268.htm

dcubfan, they built an Ethanol plant, behind our house. At times, it does stink pretty good...lol!

They tried to build one of those about a mile from me, too. Fortunately, the developer went bankrupt when the economy crashed, and now it will never be built. That cloud did have a silver lining, after all...

eth plant
 

Yeah, ours really stunk until the epa made them put higher stacks on it, I admit that helps out with the odor. I never realized how much pollutants come from one of those until the big fight was on with ours. I don't have any of the newspaper articles anymore from that time but there is some bad stuff that comes out of that stack. When people from outside of the area come to my place and ask why the smoke is so dark coming from the plant our local joke is we tell them this is the day of the month they burn the check stubs from their subsidy checks lol.

Here is some infomation from that the article that dcubfan posted a link to:
Notice E15 can cause performance irregularities and equipment failure and E15 is approve for 2007 and newer automobiles. I don't see the word will in the sentence. Any fuel can cause problems if it is not stored right.

The number one problem I see is poor fuel management. The non-ethanol gas isn't the same as it was 5 years ago. Biggest reason is the oil companies are adding more additives to their fuel now than they did 5 years ago. Todays fuel is design for a closed fuel system. The majority of the motors are computer controled and have fuel injectors. All gas (ethanol/gas and straight gas will loose some punch if it isn't stored correctly...which is some of the posters biggest problem. I've ask several questions dealing with fuel storage and haven't had a answer.

I'm not doing anything special with straight or gas that has ethanol in it. I was doing the 30 gas rule before I tried gas with ethanol.

Like it or not ethanol is here to stay. Brazil is having good success with it.

I have 100,000 miles on a Chevy truck that has mainly run on E85. I have done extensive mileage comparisons and came to this conclusion.

As long as the price difference between E85 and E10 is $0.35, it is a break even endeavor.

I have not run enough 87 with No Ethanol to determine a price break there.

What little testing I have done at the blender pump (E20, E40 etc) tells me that we can go to E20 with no difference in fuel mileage with E10.

As for running in small engines, we have had 0 problems in all the cubs we have had, or still have that are abnormal to normal wear and tear using both E10 and E85. You have to pull the choke lever out a bit to richen up the E85 giong into a Kohler 2 cylinder in a 782, but otherwise, it runs just fine and the motors are clean as a whistle.

opei article
 

Please people read this whole article from opei if interested in runnning higher than 10% ethanol in your small engines. I don't think putting a spin on the word "can" will help you with a voided warranty. Playing Russian roulette "can" also get you killed, even though it might not I don't recommend you do it. I was in a shop last summer where some new little tillers, and a chainsaw were brought back ruined that had higher than 10% ethanol in them. The companies "can" choose to void the warranty on them because of this and that is what they did!

As I stated earlier if you have good luck with the high percentage ethanol laden fuel great for you! Many of us don't like it and have not had good luck with it. I doubt the doe and opei would bring out warnings like this if there isn't merit in them.

Thanks
Darren

Brazillian sugarcane ethanol
 

Brazil having great success with ethanol is as much of a heated topic in Brazil as corn ethanol is here in the states. There are many articles on the net one can read to side either way with brazillian ethanol. Again without billions of dollars of subsidies that many thought Brazil could ill afford there wouldn't be much sugarcane ethanol in brazil. Now it looks as though large corporate buyouts of the sugarcane farms will keep Brazil cranking out "cane ethanol".

But hey wait a minute, we were talking US corn made high % ethanol here why confuse it with sugarcane Brazillian ethanol? My bad I guess......

Take care
Darren

Both are alchol base products. The only difference is what ag product was used to make the ethanol.

Can you provide a link to your statement?


You should reread this :
Unless You can provide the missing infomation...
How was fuel stored?
How old is the fuel?
Where was the fuel purchase? (Name brand station or cheapest station in the area)
Did homeowner shake/mix the fuel right before it was added to the motor?
It goes back to poor fuel storage again

I have ask several questions in this topic without getting an answers from you. As I said in the past todays fuel ( non ethanol gas ) is not the same as 5 years ago. Big oil is adding more additives now than they did 5 years ago.

dad bought a new echo weedeater just over a year ago and it ran fine up till about a couple months ago. he took it to the shop and 50 60 bucks later and a new carb its up and running like new.. the shop said it was from the ethanol eating up the rubber inside.. we had a older echo for over 8 years id say and we never did anything but put fuel and string to it and its just now starting to give me problems

i agree the fuel aint gonna get any better

good news !!!!!!!
 

Just found out the new spirit gas station in our town is supposed to be offering a non ethanol fuel, or was told by the cashier tonight that this is true. Boy I hope so !

As for articles on controversy of Brazilian ethanol, just google it and you will find plenty of articles going both ways.

The ethanol that has gunked up in my old tractors was stored as I have always put my gas, in clean plastic gas cans and on the workbench at my Dads garage or the shelf at my place.

I usually don't have gas left in a can for any time at all. With two cub cadets 125s, 73, several originals, 1000, deutz 1920, 3 farmall cubs, 8n, jubilee, 3 economy tractors, cadet 70, mini bike, etc. , and mostly the 4 wheeler , the gas goes from can to machine.

If the amount of ethanol makes no difference to these small engines than why does the opei and many manufacturer warranties not recommend going over e-10??????????????? It is obviously not just the other additives in the fuel causing all the problems or this would not be the case PLAIN AND SIMPLE. DOE and opei does not have agenda to go after high ethanol content fuels. Again read the report of what "can" happen when using the higher than 10% ethanol fuels in small engines that aren't made for it. Yes smoking in bed, running red lights, kicking a pitbull in the butt, playing Russian roulette, shaking a wasp nest "CAN" turn out bad. Not always, but I wouldn't recommend any of the above. Just as I personally wouldn't recommend high ethanol content fuel in any engine not intended for it.

dcubfan