I just want to expand a little on what Roland said. None of the Mods take any pleasure on banning a member. We have tried more than you guys will ever know to get these 2 guys to work within the rules of OCC and to act like respectful adults and it just didn't work. It got done to the point of they go or we loose good long term members. They had to go. No one is happy the way this turned out and we hope someday they will get the message. Speaking for myself I like to see young guys get a feel for old iron but we can't let a basically new member turn what is the best Cub forum into some sort of a Face Book page. I'm sure a couple of you that are friends or were friends with these 2 disagree, if you want to discuss it via PM with me feel free. OK I'm done.