1862 question

[cheelo8668]

i have just purchased a well used(1700hrs) 1862 for $150. it was not running at time of purchase, brought home- no spark. stole a coil from one of my spare m-18.
fired right up, very little smoke.does have a semi-stripped out heli-coil on one head. seems to move well, no creep. question i have is can i transfer my tiller set-up from my 1450 over to the 1862 and be cost effective. the 1862 has no hitch. also i have very little knowledge on these newer cubs. what problems should i look for to determine if i should invest any time or money into it? i do have 2 m-18's that run well, if i need to replace. thank- you

[Methos]

Originally Posted by cheelo8668

i have just purchased a well used(1700hrs) 1862 for $150. it was not running at time of purchase, brought home- no spark. stole a coil from one of my spare m-18.
fired right up, very little smoke.does have a semi-stripped out heli-coil on one head. seems to move well, no creep. question i have is can i transfer my tiller set-up from my 1450 over to the 1862 and be cost effective. the 1862 has no hitch. also i have very little knowledge on these newer cubs. what problems should i look for to determine if i should invest any time or money into it? i do have 2 m-18's that run well, if i need to replace. thank- you

Sounds like you got a pretty good deal! If your 1450 and 1862 are the same size the tiller could be mounted on it but you'll have to do something about the alum. rear end. The tiller would pull the bolts right out of the axle housing unless you put a cast iron rear end in there. I'm not 100% sure that it could be done but with everything with the know how, tools or the cash anything can be done. It would be a custom setup for sure. If it was me I'd keep using the 1450 for tilling duties. I can see desire of using the 1862 with power steering and tilt steering wheel you could sit and till all day long with out using very much energy.

[Cubcrazy]

I would leave the tiller on the 1450.
Alot of work to make the 1862 tiller ready.
On top of what duke said you would need a three point hitch set up and pulley changes as well.

[jbollis]

I don't know why everyone tries to scare people into thinking the aluminum rear ends are weak and cannot handle any kind of work load. I have never heard of anyone pulling the bolts out of the rear. I am not saying it has not been done, but I would bet if it has they were doing something they should not have been doing or the bolts were not tight.

I did some looking and figuring and this is what I found.

Fastener = 3/8-16 x.750. Using about .500

A 3/8-16 thread internal thread has around a .03392 shear area at .500 of use. I don't know the specs for the housing, so I used the lowest aluminum tensile strength of 26000 psi for this figure.

.03392 x 26000 = 881.92 psi per bolt, x 5 bolts = 4409.60 psi on only the bolts themselves would be needed to pull (strip) the threads out of the aluminum housing.

I understand that these numbers are not exact as I don't know the exact specs on the housing. But you can see that someone would have a very difficult time pulling the 5 bolts out under normal use. A person would have to be pulling more than 2 tons, that is more than you can legally haul in the bed of most pickups.

I can however see problems occurring if the bolts are not tight. But that is a another story.

[Methos]

Originally Posted by jbollis

I don't know why everyone tries to scare people into thinking the aluminum rear ends are weak and cannot handle any kind of work load. I have never heard of anyone pulling the bolts out of the rear. I am not saying it has not been done, but I would bet if it has they were doing something they should not have been doing or the bolts were not tight.

I did some looking and figuring and this is what I found.

Fastener = 3/8-16 x.750. Using about .500

A 3/8-16 thread internal thread has around a .03392 shear area at .500 of use. I don't know the specs for the housing, so I used the lowest aluminum tensile strength of 26000 psi for this figure.

.03392 x 26000 = 881.92 psi per bolt, x 5 bolts = 4409.60 psi on only the bolts themselves would be needed to pull (strip) the threads out of the aluminum housing.

I understand that these numbers are not exact as I don't know the exact specs on the housing. But you can see that someone would have a very difficult time pulling the 5 bolts out under normal use. A person would have to be pulling more than 2 tons, that is more than you can legally haul in the bed of most pickups.

I can however see problems occurring if the bolts are not tight. But that is a another story.

So when you going to hook a tiller up to a alum rear end and prove your point? I sure don't feel like telling someone that they will not have problems when I feel other wise. There's a reason why xtreme motor works and others put side tabs on their products. My gut feeling is that it's not for looks.

http://www.xtrememotorworks.com/Part...CC-03-001M.htm

http://www.xtrememotorworks.com/Part.../CC-29-010.htm

[jbollis]

Originally Posted by Methos

So when you going to hook a tiller up to a alum rear end and prove your point? I sure don't feel like telling someone that they will not have problems when I feel other wise. There's a reason why xtreme motor works and others put side tabs on their products. My gut feeling is that it's not for looks.

http://www.xtrememotorworks.com/Part...CC-03-001M.htm

http://www.xtrememotorworks.com/Part.../CC-29-010.htm

Not to start an argument here but the the numbers do not lie, nor was Extreme involved in the design of the aluminum rear end.

No offense to Extreme's stuff but, just because someone over builds a part for (extreme) use, does not mean that the stock part will not work for normal use.

[Matt G.]

Originally Posted by jbollis

I don't know why everyone tries to scare people into thinking the aluminum rear ends are weak and cannot handle any kind of work load. I have never heard of anyone pulling the bolts out of the rear. I am not saying it has not been done, but I would bet if it has they were doing something they should not have been doing or the bolts were not tight.

I did some looking and figuring and this is what I found.

Fastener = 3/8-16 x.750. Using about .500

A 3/8-16 thread internal thread has around a .03392 shear area at .500 of use. I don't know the specs for the housing, so I used the lowest aluminum tensile strength of 26000 psi for this figure.

.03392 x 26000 = 881.92 psi per bolt, x 5 bolts = 4409.60 psi on only the bolts themselves would be needed to pull (strip) the threads out of the aluminum housing.

I understand that these numbers are not exact as I don't know the exact specs on the housing. But you can see that someone would have a very difficult time pulling the 5 bolts out under normal use. A person would have to be pulling more than 2 tons, that is more than you can legally haul in the bed of most pickups.

I can however see problems occurring if the bolts are not tight. But that is a another story.

I have a few issues with your calculations. For starters, the threads will fail in shear, not tension, so you cannot use the tensile strength for this calculation; you must use the shear strength. Without knowing the alloy I'd want to assume a fairly conservative value of 11,000 psi. Multiplying that by the area you came up with (which I'm not going to try to verify at the moment) results in a force of about 430 lb (not psi) per bolt or using all 5, about 2150 lb. Now, that 11,000 psi shear strength is ultimate shear strength, as in the shear stress at which the material breaks. The yield shear stress (where permanent deformation occurs) is probably 50-60% of the ultimate shear strength, so that'll bring our load down to 1075 lb, as we don't want yielding to occur, either. Throw a factor of safety on there (I'd say a minimum of 2 for this, I imagine farm equipment is designed to at least that, but I don't know for sure) and we're down to just over 500 lbs. Something neither of us has taken into account is the preload on the threads from the bolt torque, so there is already a fairly substantial shear stress in the threads just from the bolt torque.

Something else you are not considering is fatigue. If this was a constant, steady load being applied, this could be okay, but the load varies with time, which will eventually cause failure of the part, even if the stresses are less than the yield strength of the material. This is why the aluminum connecting rods eventually break in our engines.

This is why I believe the threads can be damaged in the aluminum rears, why CCC never offered the IH 3-point on the aluminum rear tractors, and why xtrememotorworks has the improved lower 3-point brackets. It is unlikely the tiller will pull the bolts out because the tiller is pushing the tractor, whereas other rear implements may cause problems because they are all being pulled and are pulling on the bolts in the rear.

I'm using my #1 tiller on my aluminum-rear 782D with a Cat-0 hitch and the adapter package that I reverse engineered. I recently finished the whole thing but haven't had a chance to test it. Here are some pictures.

100_7885 (Medium).jpg

100_7881 (Medium).jpg

100_7883 (Medium).jpg

100_7880 (Medium).jpg

[rkeithley]

Originally Posted by Methos

Sounds like you got a pretty good deal! If your 1450 and 1862 are the same size the tiller could be mounted on it but you'll have to do something about the alum. rear end. The tiller would pull the bolts right out of the axle housing unless you put a cast iron rear end in there. I'm not 100% sure that it could be done but with everything with the know how, tools or the cash anything can be done. It would be a custom setup for sure. If it was me I'd keep using the 1450 for tilling duties. I can see desire of using the 1862 with power steering and tilt steering wheel you could sit and till all day long with out using very much energy.

I have a no. 2 tiller on the back of my 1864 (same tractor only with a command engine) and never had a problem with pulling the bolts out. The sleeve hitch off the 1450 will work with the 1862, you wll need the Frankenstein bolts to use it. I would change the pull on the gear box to the wider belt. The 1862 will be a better tractor to use than the 1450.

[Methos]

Originally Posted by rkeithley

I have a no. 2 tiller on the back of my 1864 (same tractor only with a command engine) and never had a problem with pulling the bolts out. The sleeve hitch off the 1450 will work with the 1862, you wll need the Frankenstein bolts to use it. I would change the pull on the gear box to the wider belt. The 1862 will be a better tractor to use than the 1450.

Got pics? How long have you been using this setup?

[rkeithley]

Originally Posted by Methos

Got pics? How long have you been using this setup?

I bought the Tiller new, when I bought my new 1811. The CC 1811 had a 3 point and I could never find the parts to use the tiller on the CC 1811 with a 3 point. The tiller just sat in the machine shed. When I bought the CC 1864 new it did not have a 3 point, I decided to put the tiller on it. I bought a sleeve hitch from a CC 782 and used that for the lift. I had to drill new holes to match the aluminum rear end, (because the plate was drill for the cast rear end). The CC 1864 was used around 150 hours about half mowing and half tilling, since that time tilling is all the CC 1864 has been used for. It now has 640 hours on it. So I would say around 500 ??? hours the tiller has been on the CC 1864. (some time is just idling around) 400 hours for sure. The tractor/tiller is at Mom's now because I don't use it as much now that I has a CC 442 tiller on a CC 2084. She and a couple of her friends have big gardens and Mom does not like weeding. (She is 80 years old) Don't tell Her I told you. One of Her friends that also has a big garden is 92 years old, you would think both of them were 60 years old. I just hope I'm that active when I'm 80. They plant their rows far enough apart that the tiller will fit down the row. I will get some picture when I go to Moms. But I will assure you a 1 or 2 tiller can be use on the back or an aluminum rear end safely.