Cub Cadet 124 Tranny Problem, now

[boxccc]

Sorry to belabor the issue. Please refer to my post: IH CUB CADET 124 CREEPER GEAR to get the story up to this point.

Since I installed the creeper gear (full details in post listed above), the tranny will not lock in no matter what gear I put it into. I am assuming that if the tranny is in gear I should not be able to turn or rotate the tranny input shaft if the wheels are in contact with the ground. Or, if I lift the rear so the wheels are free and I turn the wheels, the input shaft to the tranny should be turning?

What could I have damaged in the tranny by beating out the SPIROL pins to remove the drive shaft? Is the trouble at the reduction gear mechanism or behind it in the tranny axle plenary gears?

Could my tilting the tractor (pictures provided) and beating out the Spriol from the drive shaft coupler caused a gear or throw out bearing to have slipped out of position?

The tractor worked fine till I started messing with it. (Please refer to original post for details)

Boy, I now wish I had hooked up my 1A tiller to my CC 129 and used the Hydrostat to creep along with full throttle running the tiller. I followed the advise of a very respectable old timer CC dealer/service (over 40 yrs in our NW Ohio area) who felt the manual tranny of a 124 with a creeper gear would do the tasks better.

Where do I go from here? Do I tear down the entire tranny looking for a stripped gear of sheared pin?

Thank You All for your tolerance and patience for a total amateur.

[cjrolke]

just for some clarification

what do you mean "the tranny will not lock in no matter what gear I put it in"?

I have assembled and disassembled the clutch on 3 narrow frames with the tractor vertical because it was easier to get to the spirol pin that way

when you put the creeper in did you get the right size(diameter and length) spirol pin for the gear that connects to the input shaft on the trans?

[cubcadet]

i agree with what chris said, it will pop out of gear with the incorrect length spirol pin that holds the creeper gear input gear to the tranny input shaft , it has to be below the gear on each side

[Yosemite Sam]

I do agree with the guys about the pin being the right length... However

I am guessing that, in a round about way, you are telling us that you don't have your clutch issues resolved yet.

Since the transmission and creeper gears are not synchronized it is difficult (at best) to get the shifter to "lock in" at any given time while the tractor is setting still in the garage without the engine running, this issue is compounded when a creeper is added.

While gently pulling/pushing the shifter into its desired gear, rotate the drive shaft a few hundred times to get the gears lined up (more if the creeper is engaged). Once the gears are lined up the shifter should "pop" into gear (keep in mind that while doing this the creeper handle must be either all the way to the front of its slot or all the way to the back of the slot and not somewhere in the middle).

After the shifter is all the way in gear, raise ONE rear wheel off the ground and rotate the drive shaft several hundred more times to transfer motion to the rear wheel.

OR put the clutch back together and then answer these questions.

What happens when the tractor is on the ground, the creeper handle is pushed forward and you step on the clutch, start the engine, put the tranny in gear (I don't care what gear) and then let out on the clutch?

Then what happens when (tractor on the ground, with the engine running, tranny in neutral, clutch pedal pushed down) you pull the creeper lever back and HOLD IT THERE while putting the tranny in gear (I don't care what gear) then slowly let out on the clutch?

[boxccc]

Yosemite Sam: Could you give me more detail regarding your statement" while gently pushing..., rotate the drive shaft a few hundred times..." I did rotate the shaft a at least a dozen rotations but still no resistance. Could you elaborate?.

Thank You All for your patience.

[darkminion_17]

May be that the internal brake is stuck.

[boxccc]

cjrolke: I (boxccc) infer by the phrase "tranny will not lock.." that if I were manually pushing the tractor while it was in any gear except neutral the wheels would be locked and i would not be able to move the tractor. From this I interpreted that if the wheels where in contact with the pavement and the gear selected in any gear except neutral that I could not turn the input shaft to the trans. This is all done with the creeper gear and gear box removed. Picture inserted of the input shaft to the trans or reduction gear as the manual identifies it.

Second question: Yes, I meticulously cut down the spirol pin so that the creeper gear being fixed to the trans input shaft had no prominence into the "groove" of the gear to impede the sliding gear from the gear box of the creeper gear. I tested this both on the bench as well as with the gear box installed and the creeper gear selector locked firmly in either the HI or LO position.

Let's totally remove the creeper gear etc from the discussion and focus strictly on the trans and the input shaft. If the trans is in neutral, I assume that I can manually turn the input shaft to the trans freely. secondly, if the trans is in any gear, I also assume that I should not be able to manually rotate or turn that shaft. Now I do not know what effect if any the reduction gear has on the mechanics. I interpolated that I might be able to turn the shaft several times before meeting total resistance, but I have no basis for this assumption.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by boxccc

the tranny will not lock in no matter what gear I put it into.

I interpreted this to mean that the shifter would not push the sliding gear into position (locked in place) hence, turn the shaft many times to line the gears up, while gently pushing the shifter into the desired gear. I was also under the impression that the creeper and drive shaft were in the tractor at the time this was happening.

Originally Posted by boxccc

I am assuming that if the tranny is in gear I should not be able to turn or rotate the tranny input shaft if the wheels are in contact with the ground.

Not true, the tractor would simply roll a little, turning the input shaft a dozen or so times when in first gear should net you maybe as much as one inch of ground distance (I doubt if it would be that much). To achieve this, one must reach up under the tractor (more than likely in a precarious position) and physically turn the shaft. It is my contention that it would be very difficult to determine if the tractor moved or not, especially when you consider that this is all happening so slowly. Turning the input shaft by hand when in first gear, one would not encounter any noticeable change in input shaft rotational resistance if the tractor were setting on a fairly smooth flat surface.

Originally Posted by boxccc

if I lift the rear so the wheels are free and I turn the wheels, the input shaft to the tranny should be turning?

ONLY if the transmission is in gear and both wheels are turned in the same direction at the same time (difficult to do) or (with tranny in gear) if only one wheel is raised and the other is firmly on the ground and the raised wheel were turned (much easier).

Originally Posted by boxccc

Could my tilting the tractor (pictures provided) and beating out the Spriol from the drive shaft coupler caused a gear or throw out bearing to have slipped out of position?

No, broken something, maybe, but probably not.

Originally Posted by boxccc

Thank You All for your tolerance and patience for a total amateur.

Sorry to have lost my patience, sometimes it's difficult to remember that at one time or another we were all new to this.

[boxccc]

Gentlemen of the Ether Net: I think I may have stumbled onto my erroneous train of thought. I have assumed that if I were trying to push start an suto (manual tranny) or tractor by pushing it in gear the motion would transmit via the drive shaft and turn the engine sufficient to start. However, I have not factored in the reduction gear sisnce they are not present in autos or field tractors. I think the problem is in the creeper gear box and as suggested by a CC old-time mechanic the yolk which pushes the HI or LO position might be worn and it lets the gear slide into the middle position which in essence disengages the drive shaft from the engine to the input shaft of the reduction gear in the rear trans. I did take the cover off the trans at the gear selector (top rear) and found no gears stripped of broken.

Well, back to the barn...I'll keep those interested informed of progress or lack of....
Thanks Again...yours truly DinkyDau (VietNaameese for ?Nuts (Mental that is)...too much bunker time or exposure to Agent Orange.

[dvogtvpe]

when you installed the creeper did it slide all the way up against the cover of the trans? or did you draw it down with bolts? the snap ring on the top pinion or input whatever you like to call it can pop off allowing the pinion or input to slide back and lose contact with the big reduction gear.