1450 Loader Questions

hyperlightboards48 · #1 02-26-2018, 02:08 PM

Hi All, New to the forum, I just picked up a new to me 1450 with a homemade loader.

The loader is ran off the rear end and seems to lack power it’ll lift max about 200 lbs very slowly. I am assuming this should be able to lift more and is probably due to the fact it doesn’t have its own hydro pump. Moves snow great as is but come summer I have some gravel I want to move and I don’t think it’ll be up for the task. Upon research on the forum I’ve decided I need a separate pump, hoping to run this pump off the electric pto up front to be able to disengage for winter starting. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...1998_200641998.

Three questions:
1)Does this pump look right? from the research I have done seems like I need about a 4gpm pump.

2)I couldn’t find much information about reservoir size, are there any recommendations? I know a lot of people use the loader arm.

3)How do I bleed the current system, it seems like my left lifting cylinder has some air in it, seems to lag the right one by about a half inch, making my bucket un even.

Hopefully I’ll figure out how to get a couple photos loaded

riesedesperado6170 · #2 02-26-2018, 09:12 PM

I believe one I got 4-8 gpm pump. At 1800 RPM it's 4 gpm and 8 gpm 3600 RPM, but I have to check. at lease gal. I making tanks so I can have a 4-5 gal. capacity. But, I'm building back hoe.

Jeremy

J-Mech · #3 02-27-2018, 01:07 AM

You say "ran off the rear", I assume you mean off the hydrostat??
The internal pump is small, but is large enough to operate a loader. If the system seems weak, check the charge pump output pressure and correct as necessary. It's in the chassis service manual.

If you add a pump, you will have to add a reservoir. Plus all that work. I'd just fix the charge pump pressure and see how it works.

If you think one cylinder has air in it, all you do to remove it is do a couple complete cycles of the cylinder. Full up to full down. Air can make it "lag" behind, but I doubt that is the issue. A "T" hydraulic system will split the load equally between the two cylinders. If one is behind the other, it's likely that the builder didn't get the frame made the same on both sides.

But, if you want to make a mount, and reservoir, do all that plumbing.... be my guest. You may find you have the same issues still....

sparky40 · #4 02-27-2018, 10:34 AM

I also have a 1450 with a Johnson loader on it. When I got it, it was also run off the ported pump. I added a separate hydraulic pump, ( and power steering) the ported pump just does not have enough power for the loader for what you want to do. After changing mine to a dedicated pump it made a world of difference. Here is the pump I used https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...9708_200329708
If you are going to run it off a pulley, make sure the pump is rated for a side load. I ran mine off the front PTO. Hope this helps

hyperlightboards48 · #5 02-27-2018, 12:50 PM

First of all thank you all for the responses and input!

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mech

You say "ran off the rear", I assume you mean off the hydrostat??

Yes sorry, still learning the terms and the workings of everything, thank you for the clarification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mech

The internal pump is small, but is large enough to operate a loader. If the system seems weak, check the charge pump output pressure and correct as necessary. It's in the chassis service manual.

If you add a pump, you will have to add a reservoir. Plus all that work. I'd just fix the charge pump pressure and see how it works.

Interesting, I've seen people stating both- existing hydro will work and other saying it isn't sufficient. Ideally I would be able utilize the existing pump. and I would like to eliminate other issues along the way. I have been reading through the chassis manual (thanks for pointing me in this direction) and I will pick up a gauge and a 1/8th adapter and test what I have coming out of it now

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mech

If you think one cylinder has air in it, all you do to remove it is do a couple complete cycles of the cylinder. Full up to full down. Air can make it "lag" behind, but I doubt that is the issue. A "T" hydraulic system will split the load equally between the two cylinders. If one is behind the other, it's likely that the builder didn't get the frame made the same on both sides.

That was my initial thought as well, I did some rough measurements down to about an 1/8th inch and everything seems equal from side to side and level. When I take measurements of the ram/pistons (sorry don't know the right term) the right one is always ahead by about a half inch that is until it reaches the top then the left one catches up and everything then becomes level.

hyperlightboards48 · #6 02-27-2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finsruskw

Speaking of frames,..... I'd keep a close eye on welds at the bottom of that channel iron upright where it joins the cross member on each side for cracks. With no forward support to the frame of the tractor, it looks to be a potential weak spot IMHO.

Just how is that cross member, looks to be a 6" channel from where I sit, mounted to the frame?? I am guessing a few bolts??
I am no engineer but I'd take a close look before you load it up too much

Is this a new build from the PO??? Looks too clean to have been used much.
Be careful!!

It’s tricky to see here is another pic of the support.

I bought the tractor from a guy who bought it at an auction non-running. He fixed the spark issues and decided he wanted more lift capacity and sold it to me.

hyperlightboards48 · #7 02-27-2018, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mech

A "T" hydraulic system will split the load equally between the two cylinders....

Does it matter how the T is hooked up, as in where the supply line goes in and which ones go out? The way this T is hooked up makes sense from a space perspective. But not sure if the T’s are in any way directional. In my picture my finger is on the supply coming from the valve. The 90 goes to the right cylinder and the straight goes to the left cylinder.

Rescue11 · #8 02-27-2018, 02:39 PM

It shouldn't matter but then again I try to plumb the supply into the branch of the tee with the load out of the run. Then run equal length and diameter hoses to the cylinders.

If a 3pt hitch can lift 1000 lbs off the charge pump, you have something wrong only able to lift 200 lbs.

But it might be doing your tractor a favor since THOSE FRONT ENDS ARE NOT BUILT to load the piss out of them.

Could be the builder derated the charge pump to protect his tractor.

Are cycle times the same when it's loaded and empty?

hyperlightboards48 · #9 02-27-2018, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rescue11

It shouldn't matter but then again I try to plumb the supply into the branch of the tee with the load out of the run. Then run equal length and diameter hoses to the cylinders.

Are cycle times the same when it's loaded and empty?

Okay that could be part of my issue as well. My right hose is about a foot long and my left hose is about 4 feet long. I’ll start with trying to bleed the cylinder first then maybe toy with equal length hoses.

When loaded it slows significantly.

Rescue11 · #10 02-27-2018, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperlightboards48

Okay that could be part of my issue as well. My right hose is about a foot long and my left hose is about 4 feet long. I’ll start with trying to bleed the cylinder first then maybe toy with equal length hoses.

When loaded it slows significantly.

Sounds more like a weak relief, or possibly even pump. You really need to check the pressure relief setting. I'm guessing it's cracking after a load is placed on it allowing some fluid to bypass into the rear end. It's a fairly straight forward procedure, and always the first that should be done after changing filter and hyd fluid if those are unknowns.

If you don't know the pressure, you are wasting your time with anything else.