YET Another Driveline Question

[J-Mech]

Well..... I'm all wrong. I didn't really study this very well before throwing in my 2 cents.

Your kind of right Frank.... but I'm way off.

It appears that the PTO clutch assm isn't self supporting like I thought it was. The block assembly holds the shaft because the PTO clutch isn't self supporting. The coil assm bolts to the block, the shaft sticking out has to hold the clutch rotor. Just like the clutch on the front of the engine. I guess you can't make a single shaft very easily unless you can align that block nearly perfectly....

I'll sit back and think on this some more before I post anything else. I do still agree that the front couplers can both be welded to the front shaft. That eliminates at least 2 of the pins. But without doing some redesigning of the clutch or making some pieces to shim.... You can't do away with the bearings. At least not both of them. Sorry I didn't study more before I spouted that you could remove the bearings.

[FrankF3]

Jonathan, no problem at all. It is through these friendly discussions and bouncing our ideas off of each other that we come up with an EVEN BETTER solution.

I am still leaning toward a 1 piece shaft to get rid of as many of these small parts as I can (without making more small parts out of all of this)

I still have my thinking cap on......

[farmall fred]

How about replacing the existing bearing with a self aligning locking collar bearing like this, This example is 15/15 bore and 1.3125 mounting distance from base to center. If the mounting distance is to short it could be shimmed. If to tall could be machined down. There are many other choices available at places like Motion Industries etc. This may be a way to allow a one piece shaft to be machined.
9264855-21.jpg

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/92648435

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by farmall fred

How about replacing the existing bearing with a self aligning locking collar bearing like this, This example is 15/15 bore and 1.3125 mounting distance from base to center. If the mounting distance is to short it could be shimmed. If to tall could be machined down. There are many other choices available at places like Motion Industries etc. This may be a way to allow a one piece shaft to be machined.
Attachment 82208

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/92648435

I thought of that, but where are you going to mount the coil for clutch?? It bolts to the old bearing housing.


Now, if you made one solid shaft, you may be able to remove the front bearing in the housing. But you still need a snap ring groove in the shaft to hold it from walking out backwards. Shouldn't need one in the housing, as it has a lip on the rear, and if the shaft can't go forward, neither can the bearing.

[FrankF3]

Is there a part available that would allow me to "gut" the original housing and replace the bearings in there with self-aligning/locking bearing like farmall_fred suggested?

BTW - As Jonathan stated, the block is used as a mount for the coil, via 4 screws that are arranged in a 2.590 diameter circle. The face or flat that coil is mounted against on the block is 1.412" rearward of the center line of the mounting bolts of the block.

[Oak]

I've thought about making a rear cover out of 1/4" plate and extend it up so a bearing like this or a 4 bolt type could be installed on the side facing the pump.
Kit16816-2.jpg

Then on the back side have a mount for the clutch assembly.
DSCN0924.jpg

[spudder]

You could do as Oak suggested, using a flange bearing to replace the original bearing support. Also, I don't think it would be necessary to make a new rear plate to hold the bearing.
Make an angle mount for the bearing using the original holes to secure the mount to the top of the differential case. By using the angle mount, you could also design it to mount to the PTO just like original. It might be necessary to shim the mount both vertically and front to rear.
Using the self aligning flange bearing should make it possible to use a solid shaft with a splined coupling welded at the front provided that the coupling is welded straight and true. Better yet, is there any small U-joint that might work at the front?
I have always thought that the rear PTO shaft design left much to be desired.

[J-Mech]

I think Tim's idea of an angle mount using the original holes is a good idea.

No Frank, there is no way to gut the original housing and use a self centering bearing.

I'm sure you can get a u-joint that will work up by the pump, but you need to keep in mind that that doesn't help.... the shaft needs to run as straight as possible. If the shaft comes through the rear bearing at an angle, the hub won't be running straight with the coil. You will have a misalignment and the hub will hit the coil. Plus, then the pulley could be crooked in relation to the lower pulley. The pulley alignment isn't vastly critical, but the closer the better.

While I do agree that the design IH originally came up with leaves a lot to be desired, the real solution is the rear shaft needs to be splined just like the pump. If it was, the use of two shafts would still be fine. Front shaft with welded couplers on both ends, and installed when the bearing block is bolted on. That is the most reasonable solution without redesigning the whole set-up. A solid shaft to the rear would be the next best thing, but that would require a different PTO clutch, and a different bearing set-up completely. If you want to redesign the whole thing, that's not bad at all. I see no reason you couldn't contact the company Extreme that makes PTO's, that Sam suggests all the time, to make a new style self-supporting clutch. Then you need only a pillow block bearing to the rear, with a snap-ring groove or a lock collar on the shaft to hold it from moving rearward. Small misalignment in the clutch pulley won't matter. I intend to try and build my own rear PTO for the 982 I just bought, and that was what I was going to try to do.... but I still need some dems on the other parts. Pretty sure I can go up and look at some of the rear PTO tractors spudder has.

[Sam Mac]

Just my 2 cents, I think you guys are fixing something that is not that big a deal. They seem to last a reasonable amount of time.

[farmall fred]

I am wondering if there is a misalignment issue between the output shaft on the hydro and the rear bearing support. A way to check would be to remove the shaft from the bearing support and slide a longer solid shaft through the bearing and check it. To FrankF3 has the rear end ever had problems with the mounting bolts breaking or the front support brackets coning loose and elongating the holes in the frame? On the 1872 I am working on all of the rear end mounting holes were wallowed out especially the front support bracket holes. They were slotted from wear about 1/4 inch. If that is the case the rear could be rotated enough to miss align the two shafts and cause excessive wear on the couplers. Might be something to check.