1450 Update - Need Hydro Help

[Bob95065]

I posted an update on my 1450 project here: http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...t=29556&page=4

Any help with this tractor is appreciated. This is my first hydro and I want to put it back together right. Here's a couple of questions:

1. Is sector shaft side-to-side play acceptable?

2. Can I remove the sector shaft and put it back in without disassembling the pump? Will the swash plate fall if I remove it?

3. Is play between the cam plate and trunion plate acceptable?

Thanks in advance,

Bob

[Cub Cadet 123]

Originally Posted by Bob95065

I posted an update on my 1450 project here: http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...t=29556&page=4

Any help with this tractor is appreciated. This is my first hydro and I want to put it back together right. Here's a couple of questions:

1. Is sector shaft side-to-side play acceptable?

2. Can I remove the sector shaft and put it back in without disassembling the pump? Will the swash plate fall if I remove it?

3. Is play between the cam plate and trunion plate acceptable?

Thanks in advance,

Bob

I only have experience enough to answer your 3rd question because a 129 that I used to own and worked on had this problem. A little wobble is okay, but too much play caused the 129 that I worked on to slide into reverse automatically and caused the operator to constantly hold the control lever to prevent that from happening. So, a little wobble worked okay on that cub, but too much was hazardous. Therefore, try to prevent as much play as you possibly can. Others with more experience and knowledge than I have on this topic will chime in and provide further assistance.

Cub Cadet 123

[ironman]

Originally Posted by Bob95065

I posted an update on my 1450 project here: http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...t=29556&page=4

Any help with this tractor is appreciated. This is my first hydro and I want to put it back together right. Here's a couple of questions:

1. Is sector shaft side-to-side play acceptable?

2. Can I remove the sector shaft and put it back in without disassembling the pump? Will the swash plate fall if I remove it?

3. Is play between the cam plate and trunion plate acceptable?

Thanks in advance,

Bob

Bob, I have never torn a hydro apart but knowing more about them interests me and your questions, I hope, will lead us all to more knowledge about them from the gurus here. But to help me understand, could you explain what you are referring to in questions 1 and 2 as the "sector shaft"? I am including an exploded view of the hydro, and I don't see anything referred to as a sector shaft. It looks to me like two pins (part 30) go through the holes in the swash plate (part 31) and the shafts (parts 39 and 54). Are 39 and 54 what you mean as sector shaft. If I'm seeing it right, you would have have the case split to get those pins (30) out to get the shafts (39 & 54) out. But I see from the pics in your original restoration thread that you had the trunion shaft out. So I'm confused about question 2. Thanks, Geo

[Bob95065]

Originally Posted by ironman

Bob, I have never torn a hydro apart but knowing more about them interests me and your questions, I hope, will lead us all to more knowledge about them from the gurus here. But to help me understand, could you explain what you are referring to in questions 1 and 2 as the "sector shaft"? I am including an exploded view of the hydro, and I don't see anything referred to as a sector shaft. It looks to me like two pins (part 30) go through the holes in the swash plate (part 31) and the shafts (parts 39 and 54). Are 39 and 54 what you mean as sector shaft. If I'm seeing it right, you would have have the case split to get those pins (30) out to get the shafts (39 & 54) out. But I see from the pics in your original restoration thread that you had the trunion shaft out. So I'm confused about question 2. Thanks, Geo

Yes I am trying to get parts 39 & 54 out. I don't think the washer (part 37) is missing which is causing movement along the shaft. While I am in there I'll replace the seals on either side of the shaft (part 38)

I haven't had this shaft out of the pump. What picture did you see that in?

[J-Mech]

I've said this on here a lot, but I'm going to say it again. Hydro's are a very high precision made pump. Taking one apart, is sometimes necessary, but IMHO, not for the novice. Almost all general repairs can be made with out disassembly. If disassembly is necessary, take your time, and be as clean as if you were doing surgery. Dirt is the ultimate enemy in a high pressure piston pump.

Here is an article in our tech section.
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=25192

[Bob95065]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

I've said this on here a lot, but I'm going to say it again. Hydro's are a very high precision made pump. Taking one apart, is sometimes necessary, but IMHO, not for the novice. Almost all general repairs can be made with out disassembly. If disassembly is necessary, take your time, and be as clean as if you were doing surgery. Dirt is the ultimate enemy in a high pressure piston pump.

Here is an article in our tech section.
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=25192

Can you tell me if I have to take the pump apart to get the sector shaft out? I don't see a washer between the trunion and seal. I think it is causing axial play in the shaft.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by Bob95065

Can you tell me if I have to take the pump apart to get the sector shaft out? I don't see a washer between the trunion and seal. I think it is causing axial play in the shaft.

Yes, the case would have to be split to replace it. How bad is the play? Is it causing a problem? You can't take all the play out of it. It's kind of part of it. If the shaft isn't leaking, I'd leave it alone. If it is leaking, then I'd fix it. There is a needle bearing that the shaft rides on. The shaft will probably be pitted at the bearing surface area. If you do disassemble, get your pocket book out. The trunnion shaft lists for $264. It's called a trunnion shaft BTW, not a sector.

Go to the tech section on this site, where I referred you to earlier, download the chassis manual for the 1450. It covers disassembly of the hydro.

[Bob95065]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Yes, the case would have to be split to replace it. How bad is the play? Is it causing a problem? You can't take all the play out of it. It's kind of part of it. If the shaft isn't leaking, I'd leave it alone. If it is leaking, then I'd fix it. There is a needle bearing that the shaft rides on. The shaft will probably be pitted at the bearing surface area. If you do disassemble, get your pocket book out. The trunnion shaft lists for $264. It's called a trunnion shaft BTW, not a sector.

Go to the tech section on this site, where I referred you to earlier, download the chassis manual for the 1450. It covers disassembly of the hydro.

The parts book called it a sector shaft. That's why I used that term.

I think I may leave it alone. My plans for this tractor are to do a "mechanical restoration" this year meaning I will replace broken/missing parts and clean it up without getting it to new cosmetic condition. I have work to do with it now and I want to get it in operational shape. My wife wants her garden in by mid-March.

Next winter I want to do a full restoration. If there is a problem with the hydro controls beyond what I fix or replace I'll fix it then.

[J-Mech]

What parts book are you using? None of my books say "sector". Not trying to be "legalistic" but I think using the correct term is important.

[sawdustdad]

I just finished rebuilding two hydros over the past couple months--my 149 just last week.

The service manual has very good instructions on how to disassemble and reassemble the hydro unit. Follow them carefully and you will not have problems.

While J-Mech is correct, some parts have very fine tolerances, it's not too difficult a job if you are careful and take your time, and work in a very clean area. I put my hydro in the parts washer and get it squeaky clean before starting the process and work on a clean bench with an area to set parts down in the order they are removed.

Basically, you remove the charge pump, then the case front, and finally the pump and motor cylinder and piston sets. That exposes the swash plate. Using a punch with a depth mark at 15/32nds, you tap the pin into the shaft (see the service manual) and the shafts will come out. Replace the seals, remove the pins from the shafts, and re-install the shafts with the pins. Again, it's critical to read and follow the service manual instructions exactly.

There is some side-to-side play in the swash plate shafts--probably .025 inch, and that is OK. for the third question, I think you want the trunnion springs to take up any play between the cam and trunnion plates.

In both cases (my 1450 and my 149) the rebuilds, including new trunnion "rectangles" for the springs welded on, and new springs, I found that the tractor performs MUCH better, and the hydro maintains speed much better. It's worth the effort IMO. I plan to rebuild a couple more to solve speed drift issues.