Why The Demise of IH Ag Division?

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by bocephus1991

I still feel that if they could have gotten the magnum out in the 70's like they wanted they would still be around today.

Well..... the 80's. They had it in mind but went with the 88's because of cost. Same machine, for the most part. Just without the powershift.

I agree with you about it being a perfect storm. That's a good explanation.

[Shaner]

Originally Posted by bocephus1991

The reasons Jon listed as to the demise of IH is right far as I know. IH tried to do to many diffrent things. Had they split off the divisions to keep each insulated from each other things may have been different. A lot of their manufacturing facilities were outdated, heck the owned mines that they got the ore from to make steel! Also their foundries were outdated as well. It was a perfect storm for failure that came together at the wrong time. I still feel that if they could have gotten the magnum out in the 70's like they wanted they would still be around today.

I had the exact same thought. The magnum cab with the 88 series front end experimental tractor. The magnum series would have helped IH for sure.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by Shaner

I had the exact same thought. The magnum cab with the 88 series front end experimental tractor. The magnum series would have helped IH for sure.

They designed it......
Like I said, it's the same power structure as the 88, just in a full powershift. The early Magnums even used the IH rear housing. If you take the hoods, cab and wheels off an 88 and a Magnum you can't tell the difference. (Well, you can if you know what your looking at.) CIH, changed the motor from a DT 466 to a Cummins 504, made the cab set-up more like a case cab, and used the case style front axle. Case and IH's axle was actually pretty similar.

[Mike McKown]

Two words.

POOR MANAGEMENT!

[ol'George]

They all went under one by one, only Deere survived and we almost lost them. I remember my Deere dealer increased parts prices 15% so he personally would not go under, explaining to us farmers that it was the only way he could make it.
It was tough times back then, I agree with the perfect storm thing.
Deere actually was casting some motor blocks for General motors to survive.

[bill682]

IH 1981 annual report.

[bocephus1991]

I don't it know if any of you guys are on redpower.com or not , but there is a guy dirtboyz who built what probably would have been the tractor that IH would have came out with if they hadn't sold to tenneco. The back half is a magnum the front is a 88 series IH. I believe he put the dt466 in it. He said there wasn't alot to do to modify it to fit together. Here is a pic. He numbered it a 5388 . He told me at the time of the merger there was a 5188 at the Nebraska test site.

[J-Mech]

I've seen that.

Like I said, the power train, or the "base machine" is the same. All as he would have had to do was split an 88 and Magnum and bolt the two together, then make the hoods fit the cab, and engine controls. Not really that difficult. I wish I had a pic of the superstructure of the tractor without the cab wheels and hoods. When I worked for IH, I went to Lima, Ohio for training. They had a one there. I don't think I took any pics of it because back then...... there was no such thing as cell phones with cameras. Hell, cell phones weren't really commonplace yet.

[bocephus1991]

It is pretty cool! It wasn't a (straight bolt together) he did have to do some machine work as they changed the input shaft for the cummins vs the dt466. There's a video I think on YouTube of him pulling a chisel plow with it. The guy that built this has the first 1086 built a and several other intresting ih tractors. He has a test mule from hinsdale also.

[SS5150]

This is a good topic but there are a bunch of reasons for the failure. I got a softcover copy of A Corporate Tragedy about 15 years ago and it is a great read, but I don't think I'd give $200 for it. Maybe some of you guys can try your local library.

Some things that I've read that maybe weren't mentioned here-

Construction division was sold in early 80s, (to Dresser Corp) for less than what the inventory was worth; Payhauler quarry trucks were spun off into a standalone company;

IH had a large share of ownership in Steiger Tractor, (that's where the 66/86s 4WDs were sourced) sold in real early 80s. Look for a marketing flyer for the 73/75/7788 tractors to see what the future IH/Steigers were supposed to look like. (By the way, one reason given for the sale was the lack of a PTO option)

We all know that the Cubs were sold off;

Wisconsin Steel was a money pit, I think they had a deal set up to sell it and then the buyer folded; 'I think" (I can't recall now) IH just closed it

Were unable to sell the Scout line; ended up closing it down

Lack of a full powershift in the high hp row crop tractors hurt head to head with Deere. I think most of us know at the time IH had a superior engine, and the 86/88 series cab is pretty competitive. Unfortunately IH didn't have the money to invest in the new tranny; really the full powershift STS should have been out around the time of the 86 series, at least as an option, and definitely available in the 50 series. Marsh outlined how IH would develop a line, introduce it, and then Deere would respond with an updated, improved lineup, and market it against IH's 'new' tractor.

Poor management for many years, the 60 series diff failures, overproduction in '79-80, always at odds with the labor union, wanting to go head to head with Cat in construction. Speaking of the labor issues, you guys should read some of the stuff in Marsh's book. Some of the issues were just ridiculous.

Book outlines just how critical the Powerstroke diesel for Ford Motor Co. was to IH's survival. Also company internal debates regarding the DT466- Engine division wanted to sell it to competitors, Trucks wanted it kept in house, so as customer would buy IH truck (or other heavy eq) vs competing brand with the IH engine.


Lots of good info out there. I got the new Red Tractors book last summer and it really gets into the development of the Magnum tractor. Pretty interesting stuff.....think 50 series IH with a Cummins engine, IH cab, IH (full powershift) tranny, IH rearend, Case rear wheels and dash, and new hood styling. I think the FWA axle was the same as the 50 series as well. There was a quote in there that Case had their 96 series in development, (94 series using the Cummins engine), but the Case just didn't compare with the technology that IH had, so they quickly dropped the Case and focused on refining the IH design.