341 in a narrow frame - Page 2

TEET · #11 07-21-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbollis

That is not what you told me a while back in another thread.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=3149

((( I put a K341 16 hp from a wheel horse in my 1211......I swapped the oil pan, crank, and the flywheel as the WH crank was too long. The drive cup mount from the M12 wouldn't work with the wheelhorse crank or flywheel either as it wasn't internally threaded. Took a little bit of trial and error, but it went together quite well....)))

So, witch way did you do it ?

Sorry...I didn't elaborate what I "swapped" them from, and I can see where it sounded like I used the M12 parts on the K341, which I did use some. I wish I took some pics, or documented the swap when I did it, becuse I had things put together, and taken apart so many times, I forget all the steps I took along the way. The biggest issue I had was the pto length....the electric pto would fit, but the bolt on the end held on to nothing..the shaft was ~1/2" too long, and wouldn't tighten down on the PTO. The flywheel from the WH had no threads internally to mount the drive shaft cup..I pondered drilling out the cup to fit over the external threads, but the flywheel also didn't have the hole for the dowel that the cup has on one side.

These are the major reasons I decided to find the correct parts for it rather than modify the WH designed ones, and end up with more issues.

You can PM me if you want more details.

Jeff (teet)

jbollis · #12 07-21-2010, 02:27 PM

Teet,
I am not trying to argue this. Just trying to get to the bottom of it. Sorry if it sounded that way.

But I just don't understand. You say that the 1650 crank fit witch I fully believe it did. And Supposedly if there is a difference between the 12-14-16, it is only the counter weights. Then why wouldn't the 12hp crank fit ?

According to parts tree the 1250,1450,and 1650 all have the same crank, per part numbers.

TEET · #13 07-21-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbollis

Teet,
I am not trying to argue this. Just trying to get to the bottom of it. Sorry if it sounded that way.

But I just don't understand. You say that the 1650 crank fit witch I fully believe it did. And Supposedly if there is a difference between the 12-14-16, it is only the counter weights. Then why wouldn't the 12hp crank fit ?

According to parts tree the 1250,1450,and 1650 all have the same crank, per part numbers.

I understand..and sorry for the confusion..I have so many engines in my shop, its hard for me to remember the exact steps I took during the swap. I can't confirm that the K301 wouldn't swap without some effort, I must be thinking more about the fact that I tried using the M12 stuff on the K341. There was a difference with the starter mounting, and related tinwork, electronic to points ignition, etc...not to mention WH and Cub have 2 different crank designs. I have both k301 and a K341 crank in my shop...I'll get over there later on and compare them for you... If the counterweights are different size, there has to be a good reason for it, or Kohler would have saved their money, and made the same ones for all....I'm not sure why...maybe compression differences, compensating for a larger bore and piston?...Wish I was smart enough to know..

Jeff (teet)

jbollis · #14 07-21-2010, 02:54 PM

Teet,
That would be great if you could compare the two. And if you still have that magnum 12 crank, could you compare it to the k series. I looked up the crank part number for a 1211. The magnum has a different number, but only the last 2 numbers are different. Maybe a change in the PTO end, for the newer style clutch ?

Thanks JOE

Matt G. · #15 07-21-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbollis

Would that be because of a different size PTO shaft size on some of the 12 hp than on the 14-16 hp ?

I just looked at parts tree for the 1250,1450,and 1650. They all had the same part number ( KH-45-142-25 ) for the crank !

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=c...&dn=0019100002

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=c...&dn=0024800002

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=c...&dn=0028100002

I think partstree is wrong. If you look at the Cub Cadet parts lookup, the number for the 1250 crank is 47-142-30. There is a difference in weight between the K301 and K341 piston...that has to be made up somewhere...

TEET · #16 07-21-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbollis

Teet,
That would be great if you could compare the two. And if you still have that magnum 12 crank, could you compare it to the k series. I looked up the crank part number for a 1211. The magnum has a different number, but only the last 2 numbers are different. Maybe a change in the PTO end, for the newer style clutch ?

Thanks JOE

Joe,

I ran down to the shop (in a hail storm..ugh) and took a look at the cranks...my wife has the camera on a business trip, so I couldn't snap a pic, but I compared all the measurements with a digital caliper, and they all are the same. The crankpin on all 3 K301-K341 and M12 are the same, as are the bearing surfaces. The only noticeable difference was that the counterweights on the K341 are larger than the other 2. I could see no difference in the M12 to K301 crank...length or otherwise.

Check this out, might be useful for you..

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...-reference.pdf

Wish I could help ya more!

Jeff (teet)

jbollis · #17 07-21-2010, 03:40 PM

OK, so I think it is like this, Parts tree must have the wrong number for the 1250. That would explain why their number is the same for 1250,1450,and 1650, but different then the 1211.

drysumpjet · #18 07-21-2010, 06:55 PM

There are some challenges, one being the muffler, since the pipe is 1 1/4" where-as all the rest of the K series are smaller. There is no room for a QL muffler and it's doubtful the 169 muffler will work. (Too pricey anyway) There are many solutions, I opted to go stack with an insert muffler.

I utilized all the QL electricals incuding the electric PTO.

I also retofitted balance gears with new hardware but still at a slow idle that big K341 rocks in the frame to where flexing can be seen, Point being, the K341 may be hard on narrow frame.

Still was a fun project to put together, and the torque is outstanding.

Matt G. · #19 07-21-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drysumpjet

the K341 may be hard on narrow frame.

This is the reason for the wideframes. The narrowframes will twist with the engine's torque. They also are notorious for cracks.

truckntran · #20 07-21-2010, 08:06 PM

I have a john deere engine in a 1250 that I do remember had issues with mounting the PTO and therefore no functional PTO, and when I moved the motor to a 122 it had issues with the generator arm too. You may want to compare the bolt patterns on that side of the motor..