1811 steering - Page 2

Pucknut · #11 12-11-2012, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by restore49

Bushing will come out with a 20 ton press and a little heat - best with a mandrel to fit inside and with a lip slightly under OD.

*IF* I had a 20 ton press I would have been there already. Will look up the electrolysis way to go, and see if that's doable for me to do.
As of right now, I put it all back together figuring that worked for as long as it did without falling to pieces (with the sleeves as tight as they are it has been this way for a long time), I'll run it this way through the winter, and in between seasons from snow to mow, I will beat the cub up as I already intend to tear down, get into the pistons/rings and keep my fingers crossed that its just shot rings... need to get a pair of hydro reliefs, and some other minor issues that have come up.

inspectorudy · #12 12-19-2012, 12:15 PM

I agree with George that no company would go to the trouble of bushing a joint and then making the bushing wear out that joint. What would be the rational on that? The purpose of a bushing to allow you to make the joint as tight as the original after it wears out. If the bushing rotated with the spindle then the AXLE would wear out and you would not only have to replace the axle but the bushing and the spindle as well. If CC built something that stupid then it should be put into the engineering hall of shame.

rmunro · #13 12-19-2012, 03:14 PM

I have the same deal with my 109. And I thought it was well maintained. What you say makes perfect sense to me and exactly what I thought should be, BUT when I look at mine, what Matt says seems to be correct. There is no way for grease to get between the bolt and sleeve. Unless you do as I did Monday and drill a hole in the sleeve. And the service manual I have doesn't clarify.

inspectorudy · #14 12-19-2012, 03:44 PM

I understand about the grease fitting too. I think that some of the bushings must have been replaced and no hole was ever drilled in the bushing after it was replaced. Obviously the hole would have to be drilled after the installation because lining it up with the grease fitting would be very difficult. After reading rmunro below about his having to drill out the OEM sleeve I am wondering if this step was just omitted by the factory. If the bushing was supposed to turn with the steering why would they have put them in in the first place? I mean just the spindle or bolt would have accomplished the same thing without all the extra expense. I can tell from some of the assembly techniques and practices that saving money was a big concern back then. On just the welds alone it looks like they used the philosophy of "When in doubt, leave it out". And splatter around the welds is pretty bad in some areas so no time was spent on cleaning up the welds. That's why going to all the trouble and expense to put in bushings makes no sense.

rmunro · #15 12-19-2012, 04:04 PM

LOL.

Not arguing. Everything you say makes sense to me.

My Dad bought my tractor new. He passed in 08 so I can't ask him. Wish I could. But I know he had engine rebuilt, and driveshaft rag joint and shaft replaced, but he never mentioned axle bushings leading me to believe they are original.

Monday i removed one grease fitting, drilled sleeve, installed zerk, and now lots of grease between bolt and sleeve. Doing other side Saturday. Will have to stay that way for while I'm afraid. I'll keep close eye on it. Seems nice and tight now.

But looking at the way it was set up, sure as heck sounds like Matt is correct.

Beats me why that would be better, but??? What do I know.

Matt G. · #16 12-19-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inspectorudy

I understand about the grease fitting too. I think that some of the bushings must have been replaced and no hole was ever drilled in the bushing after it was replaced. Obviously the hole would have to be drilled after the installation because lining it up with the grease fitting would be very difficult. After reading rmunro below about his having to drill out the OEM sleeve I am wondering if this step was just omitted by the factory. If the bushing was supposed to turn with the steering why would they have put them in in the first place? I mean just the spindle or bolt would have accomplished the same thing without all the extra expense. I can tell from some of the assembly techniques and practices that saving money was a big concern back then. On just the welds alone it looks like they used the philosophy of "When in doubt, leave it out". And splatter around the welds is pretty bad in some areas so no time was spent on cleaning up the welds. That's why going to all the trouble and expense to put in bushings makes no sense.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but you are totally wrong. As I've already stated multiple times, the bushing rotates in the axle because it is supposed to be clamped to the spindle by the bolt,as the bushing is ever so slightly taller than the axle in that location. If it is greased properly, it turns easily, and very little wear occurs because of the enormous bearing surface of the bushing on the spindle. If the nut is loose on the spindle bolt, the bolt, spindle, and bushing will all rotate independently of each other, wearing the spindle and bolt.

If the factory had done it any other way, it would be possible for the bolt to rotate relative to the spindle, which wears MUCH faster than the bushing in the axle.

If maintained properly, it works wonderfully the way the factory intended.

bruce s · #17 12-19-2012, 09:51 PM

Matt is 100% correct . The steering knuckle spacer is clamped between the spindle arms so it moves with the steering knuckle . The spacer creates more bearing suface so there is less wear IF lubricated properly. The bronze bushings are there so when wear is created the bearings can be replaced and the front axle will be back to new specs again .

inspectorudy · #18 12-20-2012, 12:58 PM

Where are the bronze bushings?

rmunro · #19 12-20-2012, 01:06 PM

They are in the axle, and the bolt that holds the spindle on goes down through them. Number 8

http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=c...&dn=0012500018

inspectorudy · #20 12-20-2012, 02:54 PM

I just went to the shop to look at the old 1811 axle that I took off when I converted to PS to see how it worked. Matt is correct that the bushing does rotate inside the axle housing. But as I took the bushing out to look at it, BTW mine is steel not bronze and if it had been bronze then it would have been meant for replacing, I realized that of the two items, a common five inch x 1/2 bolt or a 5 inch hardened steel bushing which one would I rather replace and at what cost. We all know the answer to that one. So basically the bolt is nothing more than a clamp to hold the bushing firmly to the spindle. I looked at my 1864 axle and the spindle is very large and goes through the axle instead of having a simple bolt like the 1811 and does not use a bushing. It looks to me like this was a way to use a much cheaper spindle on the 1811 and still give it some strength. The 1864 set up is much stronger and with power steering would have to be. It might also have been that CC used the same casting for different models and instead of using a big 3/4 or 1 inch inch bolt, which would have meant that the spindle flanges would have had to be much wider and thicker, they used the same hole but with a bushing instead. Maybe Matt can find out why they did what they did.