B & S 14HP & 16HP Vanguard V-Twin Questions

[ccguy]

This is an intriguing discussion...can't wait for the answer. A little in shock though that my Briggs is really a Japanese product...not that there's anything wrong with it........

Lonestarcub - I was brought up on mowers/blowers that were Briggs powered. Simple and dependable.

ccguy
Western MA
1994-1440

[Merk]

by Sam Mac
The complete engine number for the 1641 is BS-303447-1147, the number for the 1440 is BS-294447-1145. The replacement short block for both is the same, part # BS-494054. According to the info you provided, both the 294000 and the 303000 series engines have the same bore size.

The difference is the cubic inches each engine has and possible carb size. They do have the same bore. The stroke is different.

This information came from a Briggs and Stratton repair manual.
The first 1 or 2 digets (depending on horsepower)in this case 2 digets is cubic inches.
The first diget after displacement is the basic design series.
The 2nd diget after displacement is the crankshaft,carburetor and governor type.
The 3rd diget after displacement is PTO, reduction gear, auxiliary drive and type of lubrication the engine has.
The 4th diget after displacement is the type of starter the engine has.

Briggs and Stratton Van Guard engines are good engines. They don't have the torque numbers as a single cylinder Kohler K series engine does. The Van Guard engines are harder to work on.
I own a off topic garden tractor with a 16 horsepower Van Guard engine. It was purchase new in 1996. That tractor has 1055 hours on it. The only engine problem I've had is a starter gear went bad.

Best thing you can do for your Cub Cadet is buy the repair manuals.

[Mike McKown]

[QUOTE=Merk;165994]

The only engine problem I've had is a starter gear went bad.

QUOTE]

I have three 16 hp Vanguards and that is the only thing I have ever had go wrong with them. They may appear to be a little short in the britches sometimes but if you're mowing and you're bogging down, either the grass is way too tall or your mower deck is too low. Keep them wound up and they run fine.

I like the Kohler Commands too. Nothing wrong with the Kohler M series either except they use an outdated, flathead engine design and they drink a lot of gas.

I have fooled with Briggs engines since the top dog was 1 hp on a lawnmower. That was over 60 years ago. They were great engines in their day. They are now obsolete and have been replaced by newer OHV engines that put our more power, less emmisions and are very reliable.

Tecumseh engines were always considered "cheap" by Briggs lovers. It was a fact, they cost less to buy.

You guys forgot about the old Continental single cylinder engines. They were pretty much top of the line too.

Got an Onan on a RV generator. All I know about it is it starts and runs.

[Sam Mac]

Originally Posted by Merk

The difference is the cubic inches each engine has and possible carb size. They do have the same bore. The stroke is different.

This information came from a Briggs and Stratton repair manual.
The first 1 or 2 digets (depending on horsepower)in this case 2 digets is cubic inches.
The first diget after displacement is the basic design series.
The 2nd diget after displacement is the crankshaft,carburetor and governor type.
The 3rd diget after displacement is PTO, reduction gear, auxiliary drive and type of lubrication the engine has.
The 4th diget after displacement is the type of starter the engine has.

Briggs and Stratton Van Guard engines are good engines. They don't have the torque numbers as a single cylinder Kohler K series engine does. The Van Guard engines are harder to work on.
I own a off topic garden tractor with a 16 horsepower Van Guard engine. It was purchase new in 1996. That tractor has 1055 hours on it. The only engine problem I've had is a starter gear went bad.

Best thing you can do for your Cub Cadet is buy the repair manuals.

Merk Old Buddy

OK so the cubic inch displacement is different because of the stroke. Then I want you to explain why they use the same part number for the crank in the 1440 and the 1641 BS-807589 and the same replacement number for the short block.

Last time I checked displacement was a function of bore and stroke.
I am only telling you what the “Cub Cadet Parts” site has listed.


Not trying to be insulting but these little engines are not overly complex. Your talking to a guy that used to deal with things like Cat 3412 TTA’s

[restore49]

Sam
When I was working on my 20 hp it surprised me how many parts would interchange with the 16 hp. What usually showed up different were piston bore - journal size and stroke .

One thing to be very careful about in the Twins is CLOGGED FINS - the 20hp. that was blown looked like a 9 year old was given the block and a pail of mud mixed with grass and oil to pack into every single crevasse. Bob

[Sam Mac]

Bob
One of the things that sold me on the Vanguards is how abuse tolerant they are. I’ve worked on some that had the fins so packed full with mouse nests that I couldn’t figure why they had not welded themselves solid. Had one that a plug that came out of the carb and the owner ran it for a year with the choke full on. It had 900 plus hours on it and ran fine after I fixed the carb. I don’t think you can buy a better engine today for less $$$.

[Merk]

by Sam Mac
Merk Old Buddy

Merk Old Buddy

OK so the cubic inch displacement is different because of the stroke. Then I want you to explain why they use the same part number for the crank in the 1440 and the 1641 BS-807589 and the same replacement number for the short block.

Last time I checked displacement was a function of bore and stroke.
I am only telling you what the “Cub Cadet Parts” site has listed.


Not trying to be insulting but these little engines are not overly complex. Your talking to a guy that used to deal with things like Cat 3412 TTA’s

Sam Mac
Do you use a repair manual from a Navistar truck to fix a cat engine ???
I hope not.

You have no clue on what I have work on and I could care less what you have worked on. I thought this topic was about Briggs and Stratton engines(not Cat engines) in Cub Cadets?????

Why not use a manual from Briggs and Stratton to fix a Briggs and Stratton engine? My information came from a Briggs and Stratton manual not a Cub Cadet manual as I stated in my earlier post.

I did some checking in a Briggs and Stratton manual. The cylinder bores, connecting rods and crankshaft are the same in both engines. The Pistons are not the same.

BS-303447-1147 engine has the following part numbers:
piston-standard-843951
piston-.020 oversize-843958

BS-294447-1145
piston-standard-807619
piston-.020 oversize-807809

It looks like the piston pin location is in a different location between the 2 engines.


Carbs are different too
BS-303447-1147-carb# 809011
BS-294447-1145-carb# 809009


I will repost this again....the BS-303447-1147 is a 30 cubic inches. The BS-294447-1145 is a 29 cubibic inches.

[Sam Mac]

Merk

Go back and READ what I said. I only checked the Cub Cadet Parts site for the 1440 and the 1641. In so doing they do in fact list the part numbers as being the same between both engines. I said that either the Cub site is wrong or the engines are possibly marked with different ratings for marketing purposes.
Below is the comparison between the Briggs numbers you list and the numbers Cub has listed.

Briggs manual Cub parts list
14 HP piston-standard-807619 Cub Parts Site 807619
16 HP piston-standard-843951 Cub Parts Site 807619
14 HP BS-294447-1145-carb# 809009 Cub Parts Site 808251
16 HP BS-303447-1147-carb# 809011 Cub Parts Site 808251

Now as to what your experience is relative to engines I couldn’t care less. I’m done with this thread.

Merry Christmas to all of you.

[ccguy]

Thanks Sam Mac, Lonestarcub, Merk, Mike McKown, cubs-n-bxrs, johncub7172, and restore49.

I'm just trying to figure it all out.

ccguy
Western MA
1994-1440

[Mike McKown]

Another point of view.


http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?p=2372491