Oil control issues on a 1641

[Mike McKown]

Originally Posted by James1641

well guys I put the new valve seals in, reassembled the motor, still smokes likes crazy, I guess my rings are bad, even though it lunged 145psi per cylinder. The air filter is extremely dirty and I'm assuming that is what has led to its failure. Ive only owned this for a short period and its been one thing after another. So debating whether to do a repower or new piston/rings

See your other thread for a possibility.

[James1641]

Has new head gaskets , engine is spotless nothing between fins just shiny aluminum

[Sam Mac]

In the other thread you have going you mentioned that the air filter is extremely dirty. Have you tried running it with the air filter removed to see if it's puking oil into the air filter housing? I had one that was so bad I had to put a hose to a can just to get it to stay running. Turned out to be a head gasket.

[James1641]

The air box doesn't really have any oil in it , oil is only going one place , straight out the exhaust . Tip of the muffler stays wet

[Sam Mac]

This is a strange one. How many hours on this engine? The one I mentioned burned the head gasket between the cylinder and the oil return. I also had one that the exhaust valve guide moved up in the head this in turn caused a push rod to bend. When you replaced the head gaskets did you resurface the heads? They are notorious for warping. They are easy to resurface with a piece of glass and some wet sand paper. Here are a couple before and after pics of the one that I did most recently. If you look at the first pic you can see the place that burned through into the oil return.

[James1641]

There is 707 hours on the machine, I bought it with maybe 650ish. Since then, I have replaced battery, Pto Clutch, Voltage Reg. and stator. I did not resurface the heads, which I probably should have. I do not have the same gasket you have in your pictures, all I could find was the metal one. Its been burning oil since about 670 hours, That's about when I lashed the valves .I initially thought it was head gasket so replaced which did nothing. Last week it ran towards the low side of oil so I added oil to the fill cap, keep in mind the engine was still warm, fired it back up and it smoked, Like a automobile that had a major head gasket leak with coolant, the smoke was so heavy it was coming out the exhaust basically white, and dripping on the grass from muffler. My thought was well valve seals must be bad, for oil to be on top of piston. Replaced them, which they are way more tight than the ones I pulled off. Still smokes, just not as bad as when I added the oil. I pulled another compression test, prior to replacing the valve seals, right after the major smoke show. got 145 on one side 165 on other, took engine out, pulled heads one side was full of oil, Hence the 165, I tore the entire engine apart, pulled pistons, crank, everything out to inspect, Everything looked perfect so reinstall and fired up, still smoking, but lungs 145 on each cylinder now. Do you think its possible to have bad rings and still pump 145psi in each cylinder?

Update I just did another compression test, current situation 160psi on 1 cylinder 130 on the other

[Mike McKown]

If your head gaskets are sealing, you have that much compression, no oil to speak of in the air cleaner then I'd GUESS the oil just about has to come past the oil rings which they don't have any affect on compression.

I've only had two Vanguards that were "bulkers" and they were both blown head gaskets due to overheating. One of them quit smoking right away. The other took a long, long time to quit smoking due to the muffler being loaded up with oil.

I've seen a Vanguard that was broke (rod) but I've never seen one worn out. The last head gasket I replaced, the dealer gave me a thicker composition head gasket instead of a steel shim. I don't know what that's all about but I used it.

[Sam Mac]

You need the engine numbers in order to get the proper head gasket from Briggs. I questioned using the Graphoil gaskets as opposed to the gaskets that had the fire ring with tech support at Vanguard. I was assured that the Graphoil gaskets were the proper ones for my engine so I went with them, so far so good. Both my heads were warped and if you didn't resurface yours I'd be looking in that area. There is a how to in the tech library on how to do it.

Edit: link to how to resurface your heads. http://mgonitzke.net16.net/tools/headgasket.pdf

[James1641]

Installed new pistons and rings, resurfaced the heads, new head gaskets again, I didn't have any glass, but I had a piece of 3/4 marine board that I figured had to be pretty flat. Anyhow I got it all together and about 1 hour on it with no smoke. very pleased