1450 Loader Questions

[hyperlightboards48]

I was able to run the pressure tests tonight. Running with no load spec is 200psi max, I was just shy of 200psi. With load the spec is 500-625psi i hovered right around 600psi. I did another test with 200lbs in the bucket and watched the gauge to see if it dropped off but it stayed consistent at 600psi.

The comment about 1000lbs off the rear end I think falls inline with what the loader is currently lifting considering the weight of the loader + the 200lb load and considering the geometry of the front lift compared to the rear lift seems to make some sense maybe?? :big think:

Nonetheless, I think I would like a little more lift power out of the loader and probably will end up putting a dedicated pump on it, not necessarily to carry the loads around but I think it would just help for breaking items free and digging capabilities. Currently when I press down with the loader it struggles to get the wheels off the ground and put the weight into the blade for scraping.

Originally Posted by sparky40

I also have a 1450 with a Johnson loader on it. When I got it, it was also run off the ported pump. I added a separate hydraulic pump, ( and power steering) the ported pump just does not have enough power for the loader for what you want to do. After changing mine to a dedicated pump it made a world of difference. Here is the pump I used https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...9708_200329708
If you are going to run it off a pulley, make sure the pump is rated for a side load. I ran mine off the front PTO. Hope this helps

Does the Johnson loader have a reservoir in the loader post, or what did you end up doing for a reservoir? Thanks for the link, I like the fact that it has multiple GPM outputs. Didn't know that was a thing (again this is all new to me)

Did you couple directly to the front end, if so did you notice any more resistance starting?

[J-Mech]

Before you go making anything else, I have questions:

1.)How is the loader valve tied into the system? Is there still a hydraulic lift on the tractor? Or is the loader the only valve?

2.) Does the loader valve also have a relief valve. I'm betting it does. Most add on valves do.


Here's some more info:
IH had the implement relief set at 600 PSI for the GT's because that's all they needed for their hydraulic system. The pump can handle much more. Shim the relief valve to 1000 PSI. The SGT's used the same pump, but were set at 900 PSI. The pump will handle at least 1000 PSI safely without issue. It would probably handle 1500, but I don't think you need that much for a loader.

On another note, the PO who built the loader did a nice job, but the bucket is really far forward. If you wanted to help it out a lot, you could re-engineer it. But that may be more work than you want.

On another, another note, loaders on GT's are not really that useful. The JD guys who have loaders on their tractors are knows the really load them down to the point of stupid in my opinion. But, their GT's were designed to have an OEM loader on them too, so they are made a bit better. CC's were not designed with a loader in mind.

[J-Mech]

This is the ONLY loader I have ever seen that looks correct on a GT. Correctly mounted, correctly made, correctly proportioned. I've never seen it in person, but I bet it works the best too. If I ever build one, I too will copy the IH 2250 quick mount loader. (The one this one is modeled after.) Look at the angle of the cylinders in the down position. Everyone who builds a GT loader does it wrong IMHO. This is how they should be made.


Click on the pic for a larger image:

782l.jpg

[Rescue11]

Originally Posted by hyperlightboards48

I was able to run the pressure tests tonight. Running with no load spec is 200psi max, I was just shy of 200psi. With load the spec is 500-625psi i hovered right around 600psi. I did another test with 200lbs in the bucket and watched the gauge to see if it dropped off but it stayed consistent at 600psi.

The comment about 1000lbs off the rear end I think falls inline with what the loader is currently lifting considering the weight of the loader + the 200lb load and considering the geometry of the front lift compared to the rear lift seems to make some sense maybe??

Well, you are in range with factory setting.

Yes, geometry, cylinder bore and stroke, and hydraulic pressure all effect the lifting ability. Cylinder angle can drastically effect your ability one way or another. Same with pressure and surface area (bore) respectively.


Your loader seems to be modeled after a loader built for G/T's. Since you are trying to run the attachment at less than half of the psi typically supplied to these units by means of a aux gear pump, you will only have less than half of the results. This is known now from your test results.

You can shem the relief to get more pressure. My 1864 runs 800-850 psig or 864.92psia

However, this can shorten the life of the charge pump if you are constantly working at relief pressure. Have been told by a very smart dude once that 1000 psig is attainable, but the life can severely shorten particularly if you are constantly loading the piss out of the hydraulic system.

Your going to need larger bore cylinders to continue using the hydro pump, or use a gear pump and do all the plumbing.

(Edit: I agree with everything Jmech said, but the pressure seems a lil high!)

[Rescue11]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

This is the ONLY loader I have ever seen that looks correct on a GT. Correctly mounted, correctly made, correctly proportioned. I've never seen it in person, but I bet it works the best too. If I ever build one, I too will copy the IH 2250 quick mount loader. (The one this one is modeled after.) Look at the angle of the cylinders in the down position. Everyone who builds a GT loader does it wrong IMHO. This is how they should be made.


Click on the pic for a larger image:

Attachment 91131

That's absolutely awesome, perfect size, sucked in to the tractor and not ridiculously huge. All gt loaders I have seen remind me of all the loaders ever made for th M Farmall.

[hyperlightboards48]

I appreciate you keep throwing questions my way even when it appears my mind is made up. It is helping facilitate growth of knowledge for me....

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Before you go making anything else, I have questions:

1.)How is the loader valve tied into the system? Is there still a hydraulic lift on the tractor? Or is the loader the only valve?

2.) Does the loader valve also have a relief valve. I'm betting it does. Most add on valves do.

1- The supply comes off of the lift valve (for the deck) on the steering column. The return runs directly back into the pump. I don't think i'll ever use the hydro lift so I could tie the out/supply directly back to the pump rather than the deck lift and eliminate that entire system if that would help at all.

2- I believe so, again not super familiar with hydraulics but going off of looks I think what i am pointing at here is probably a relief, I assume your follow up question is, "what psi is this relief valve?" I have googled the numbers a bit on the valve and unfortunately I'm struggling finding any information.

[hyperlightboards48]

Here is the pic, sorry I forgot.

[J-Mech]

If they ran off the return port of the dash valve, then to the loader valve you should be fine. There is no internal relief in the dash valve, and no way for it to bypass, unless the spool is bad.... but that is possible. Might be better to put it downstream of the loader, or eliminate it altogether. (Likely isn't affecting it though.)

You can test the output of that relief valve if need be, but I imagine unless someone has messed with it, it's set at around 1500-1800 psi. No need to check it yet.

When you tested the charge pump pressure, did you use the loader valve, or the dash valve (for the deck lift)? Use the deck lift valve as it is first in the system, and guarantees you are reading the charge pump relief and not the loader valve relief.

By the way, there are two relieve valves on the hydro. One for charge pump supply, and one for implement lift. If you shim it, make sure to shim the correct one. Book tells you how.


Trent:
Check the books.... SGT's run at 700-900 psi for the implement relief. You won't hurt it going to 1000.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by Rescue11

All gt loaders I have seen remind me of all the loaders ever made for th M Farmall.

Yeah, a loader for an M installed on a GT.


I hate all the GT loaders that are out there. Only one I like is the JD44 loader because it actually looks like it fits decent, and seems to work really well. But it was an OEM attachment, so it makes sense.

[hyperlightboards48]

I tested first with the deck lift valve and then tested with the loader valve, didn't notice any change. Ill do a bit of digging to see if i can find a shim kit tomorrow of if i can find something else to make it work.