Slow cranking 149

[Matt G.]

Originally Posted by Flatbedford

I guess I could replace the plug and wire. How would the ignition components effect the cranking though? Do they suck up too much power due to higher resistance (as rusted/corroded/dirty connections would too) and slow down the starter?

No, that doesn't make any sense at all. Higher resistance = less current draw by those components. Take the plug wire off (infinite resistance) and it will still crank exactly the same as if the plug wire were connected. The condition of the ignition circuit has nothing to do with the cranking system. If the plug and/or wire were bad, the tractor wouldn't run.

Originally Posted by Cub Cadet 123

Yes, like a good tune-up on a vehicle, new plug wires, dist. cap, plugs, etc. attention to a clean, including insulated, electrical system makes a difference in the electrical current....think it's called the isothermal conductivity or something like that (??). For instance, if wires were cut and spliced, then soldered without being wrapped, then some of that electrical current is lost as it is passed down the line to make it's connection. Here's an analogy, it's like you are going to your local cub dealer to buy some hy-tran to help improve the performance of your cub, but you decide to stop at McD's and service your Big Mac attack. Then you head back out to the dealer and there's a very nice looking babe having car trouble along the side of the road, so you stop to help her out. Afterwards, you head back out to the cub dealer and see a Super GT along the side of the road and you stop to ask, "How much?". Then you head back out to get the hy-tran......and an hour later you get to the dealer and find it's too late and they are closed! That's like the electrical current on it's mission to starting your cub......only a little embellished with my stupid story. The insulation makes sure that it focuses on its mission of getting there as efficiently as possible, without any distractions.

Nonsense. The insulation is there so the wires don't short out against each other, the tractor's frame, etc. Current is not 'lost as it is passed down the line' with or without insulation. The current in a circuit for a given voltage depends on the resistance of the circuit, which is not affected by the insulation on the wiring.

[cubs-n-bxrs]

Do not rule out the battery also. Just went through this. When I repowered my 682 with the CH-18 I bought a new 340cca battery from NAPA. Thing turned over really slow and would barely fire. Checked and cleaned all the grounds and still no improvement. Last ditch effort was to pull the battery and have it checked. They put it on the load tester and it was found to have a bad cell right out of the box. Another new battery and it cranks at blazing speed now and fires about the first revolution. Just something else to check.

[Mike1450]

Matt makes good sense in his reply you do not lose current in the line but you do lose power. If your resistance is high between the battery and starter you will have more of a drop between these two points. Thus ending up with less Voltage at the starter and less power. Resulting in slower turning of the starter.

If you still have the original battery cables (I believe they were 10 gauge) in the tractor you will benefit by changing them out with larger cables 4 gauge or greater.

[Flatbedford]

I agree that cleaning up and replacing the wiring should help. Like I said it is a mess. Lots of splices and dirty connections too. This summer I plan to tear the tractor down a bit, do some cleaning, and make some repairs. I'll redo the wiring when it is easy to get at it. It starts ok, but I'm not sure if it would start on a cold winter night for snow duty like this. At least I know that I don't have to rebuild the starter/generator. I'll upgrade the main power wires when I do it too.

One person suggested that it could be the ACR acting up. How could I troubleshoot that? I plan to pull the engine and remove the balance gears this summer as part of the tear down.

[Cub Cadet 123]

Originally Posted by Matt G.

No, that doesn't make any sense at all. Higher resistance = less current draw by those components. Take the plug wire off (infinite resistance) and it will still crank exactly the same as if the plug wire were connected. The condition of the ignition circuit has nothing to do with the cranking system. If the plug and/or wire were bad, the tractor wouldn't run.



Nonsense. The insulation is there so the wires don't short out against each other, the tractor's frame, etc. Current is not 'lost as it is passed down the line' with or without insulation. The current in a circuit for a given voltage depends on the resistance of the circuit, which is not affected by the insulation on the wiring.

I beg to differ. I do remember covering this in my Advanced Calculus III class as isothermal conductivity, looking at the gradient and using the del operator to calculuate this through partial differientiation! Electricity travels through the shortest path of least resistance and lack of insulated wiring can cause arcing.

Cub Cadet 123

[Matt G.]

Originally Posted by Mike1450

Matt makes good sense in his reply you do not lose current in the line but you do lose power. If your resistance is high between the battery and starter you will have more of a drop between these two points. Thus ending up with less Voltage at the starter and less power. Resulting in slower turning of the starter.

Clarification: I've been referring to the effects of the ignition system (rather the lack thereof) on the start circuit. Obviously if the starter cables are in bad condition, the resistance will be higher, and the current will drop as a result, and the power (V*I) is then reduced as a result.

Originally Posted by Cub Cadet 123

I beg to differ. I do remember covering this in my Advanced Calculus III class as isothermal conductivity, looking at the gradient and using the del operator to calculuate this through partial differientiation! Electricity travels through the shortest path of least resistance and lack of insulated wiring can cause arcing.

Math teachers/professors generally cannot apply their theoretical knowledge to real life. I have had 3 or 4 electrical engineering classes, none of which covered what you claim...show us a verifiable source. The insulation prevents wires from arcing as you say, but has NOTHING to do with the current-carrying capability of the wire. The resistance of a wire depends on the resistivity of the conductor material (itself a function of temperature), the cross-sectional area, and the length. Strip all of the insulation off of all of your tractor's wiring, figure out a way to keep them separated so they don't arc or short, and it will function the same as with all of the insulation intact.

[David a Calkins]

if you pull the spark ,and roll the engine over ,and stay by the cam side of the engine ,and can hear a click ,when the engine rolls over ,the c/r spring is broke or to weak to hold the c/r in place .that will let the exhaust valve close ,and it will do what you say the engine is doing .i had this happend to me ,when i had sold the cub ,and had very short time to repair it ,before the guy came to get the cub ,i was able to lift the engine ,and pull the cover off the cam ,and replace the new spring ,i just tyed a thread to the spring ,to keep it from falling to the pan ,hope this helps .David

[Merk]

My 149 has always crank over slowly. One thing you need to remember is your turning the hydraulic pump over when you crank the motor. The battery in my 70 came from my 149. It wouldn't crank the 149 over but cranks the 70 engine. This battery is 8 years old.

Two things I did to my 149 were to add a ground wire from the battery to the bolt holding the starter on the 149. The other is do not let an attachment rest on the ground when you are done for the day. The battery will drain itself if you leave an metal attachment reat on the ground.

[ol'George]

Originally Posted by Merk

My 149 has always crank over slowly. One thing you need to remember is your turning the hydraulic pump over when you crank the motor. The battery in my 70 came from my 149. It wouldn't crank the 149 over but cranks the 70 engine. This battery is 8 years old.

Two things I did to my 149 were to add a ground wire from the battery to the bolt holding the starter on the 149. The other is do not let an attachment rest on the ground when you are done for the day. The battery will drain itself if you leave an metal attachment reat on the ground.

I don't agree that the battery will "drain itself" that is an old wives tale.
Just like setting a battery on cement during storage.
But I respect your opinion.

[Merk]

by ol'George
I don't agree that the battery will "drain itself" that is an old wives tale.
Just like setting a battery on cement during storage.
But I respect your opinion.

I thought the same thing too with my motorcycle. The only thing I change was adding a thin board between the kickstand and the ground. Never had a problem after that.

Something came up and I left the moldboard plow connected to my 149 sitting on the ground for a week. I had to charge the battery up to run the tractor.

You may or may not have the same problem.