1450 Hydro question - Page 2

Yosemite Sam · #11 03-31-2009, 07:22 PM

Hey clint,

The "nuts" that you refer to (#1 in picture) are hydro relief valves, they are used when pulling/towing, the machine. It sounds like what you have is one "automatic" valve and one "manual" valve. I'm not so sure the 1450 ever came with manual valves, so I believe the one with the little button on top is a replacement. The idea behind the valves is to bypass or divert the fluid when pulling/towing as to not ruin the hydro unit (this is one of the very few ways to tear a hydro up) anyway... On the manual valve (the one with the button) that button should be pushed down if you pull/tow the tractor the one without the button (just flat on top) is automatic and doesn't need any attention when pulling/towing.

As for the leaks try doing what Eagle Keeper says with the valves and that should buy you some time before you have to repair/replace them.

You have 12v on the hot side of the coil with the key on and no jumper wire?
What about the neg side under the same circumstances?
Sounds like corrosion or a bad coil, perhaps an intermittant short or bad wire... Using your wiring diagram trace that wire back through the system and see what you get.
Check and see if the pos side of the coil STAYS hot while you are trying to start it. It could have a short that is only in the "start" position.

After you get it to the point where you get it to start and runs "every time" you will probably want to check your motor mounts for wear. That will be for a later discussion though.

Listen to the Guys here, some of them are pretty sharp...

Good luck and keep us posted.

Matt G. · #12 03-31-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Hey clint,

The "nuts" that you refer to (#1 in picture) are hydro relief valves, they are used when pulling/towing, the machine. It sounds like what you have is one "automatic" valve and one "manual" valve. I'm not so sure the 1450 ever came with manual valves, so I believe the one with the little button on top is a replacement.

Close. The manual release one with the button would have come on the earlier 1450s, and later ones with 1" front spindles, internal brake rears, and 82-series styled steering wheels would have had the auto-release valves.

clint · #13 04-01-2009, 01:10 AM

I'm in debt for the huge amount of help, and information, I want to thank everyone !! Here are some pictures of the check valve, I'm not sure if someone has modified it, or something happened to it, also a shot of the motor after a semi clean. I have 8 volts while cranking with a jump from a oversized hot battery, it coyld very well be the coil. I will check more into this when I go at it again. I have a close up of the check valve, however photobucket is freezing up right now, I will post it when I get it uploaded.

R Bedell · #14 04-01-2009, 07:03 AM

Clint:

On the Check Valves, the Quietline Series is where the Engineers made the switch from the Manual Type to the Automatic Type, as stated prior. What it sounds like, that the previous PO(s) had a problem with one of these check valves and replaced just the effected one. As far as function (the check or directional fluid flow) these valves act the same.

If they are leaking, then there are two options. Search and locate good used replacements or replace with new. Here is a link for new replacements for a reasonable price.... Valves.

Eagle Keeper · #15 04-01-2009, 10:50 AM

Clint:
What is the voltage at the coil with the turned to "ON". Not with the tractor running. If it starts with a jumper going to coil, then it's not the coil.

clint · #16 04-01-2009, 11:49 AM

On the check valves, I will see if I can get it running, maybe clean these valves, replace the o-rings etc, the valve with the silver looks almost like it has been modified, ground, etc so I thought something may be wrong with that.

I'm going by memory here on the coil, with the switch on there is 12 volts, when turned over to start there is 8 volts, I also measured at the starter for a reference, and only got 8 volts at the starter as well so I assume you get some drain from the draw of cranking the motor. I need to trace every wire on the tractor, a couple have been replaced at the end of the black tubing of the wiring harness, and are not the correct color etc. I will see if I can find the correct color, and gauge of wire, splice, solder, and heat shrink it then clean the terminals as well. That way I can eliminate the wiring.

From just a stand back look, it appears I will have to pull the motor to check the stator, and wiring etc, I have got to get a service manual for this little girl so I will have a better clue as to what's going on, and direction to take as well. I have not had time to dig into it yet, I'm off work next week, so that's when I will dig in, fix the wiring etc. One thing is for sure, I'm not getting any spark at the plug, or she would crank up with starting fluid being sprayed into the carb while cranking, now I just need to find out why I'm not getting any spark at the plug. I will keep you updated, and have many more questions, I have very little experience with points/coil system, however I'm a machine technician by trade, so I do have a lot of experience in trouble shooting as that's what I have done for a living for 15 years....

If I'm getting 12 volts at the coil + terminal, and 8 volts at the + terminal while cranking, why would I not be getting any spark at the plug ?

klejeune · #17 04-01-2009, 12:34 PM

I was going to mention that the manual release valve looks to have been ground down. The button should normally stick up at the highest position only 1/4". Your's looks to be more like 3/8" or more. I'd say it got stuck in the full down position and they ground it down so the PO could get some pliers on it and pull it up. I'd just get a replacement auto release valve from the supplier R Bedell linked to or post up a wanted ad for a used one.

On the non-charging issue, it could be the rectifier not working properly. This is solid state and is non-servicable. Have you replaced the spark plug with a new one yet? I may have missed it in a previous post if you did. Plugs out of the box can be bad too if you have replaced it. I'd try a known good one to be sure. Or and spark tester if nothing else.

klejeune · #18 04-01-2009, 12:57 PM

Per the service manual for the Quietline series tractors.
Release valves for Model# 1250 serial number 597244 and below had manual unloading valves and 597245 and above had self-unloading valves. Model# 1450 serial number 590521 and below had manual unloading valves and serial number 590522 and after had self-unloading valves.

The manual I have on pdf is dated September 1979 and only specifies 3/4" front spindles and the steering wheel is still the long pointed center spoke, instead of the 82 series triangle center cap. My 1450 is a late 1979 make and has self-unloading valves, 1" spindles and 82 series center cap.

Keith

Eagle Keeper · #19 04-01-2009, 01:18 PM

I'm confused. That's normal. Do we have a charging issue here or a starting ignition problem ? If this is a conventional battery ignition then one has nothing to do with the other. You still have to verify [VISUALLY] that you have spark, or just hold the coil lead and turn it over.

You'll know then for sure.

You can still have 12 V at the coil and not get a spark. How ?? One of many reasons. Bad spark plug, bad ignition wire, bad secondary or primary coil windings. Bad ground, condenser or points. Each of these potential problems can be easily troubleshot with multimeter.

R Bedell · #20 04-01-2009, 01:39 PM

I am with Eagle and confused.

IF your issue is starting the Motor, this is a handy and simple guide for the Kohler Ignition Circuit, as found in our Technical Library Section..... Circuit