Starter / Generator throwing black dust

[truckntran]

I suppose it could have been NOS , but someone in the parts department stole the key for a good customer.....or his own cub. That's the problem with NOS... It is OLD stock.. and there can be a reason it is still hanging around. Either it has a wee little problem like you found, or it has deteriorated some from sitting around and nobody wanted to buy it for list price, or sometimes it is just old stuff that is obsolete.

[ol'George]

FWIW:
A lot of Generators and alt.s were/are built without keyways in the pulley/shaft.
They found out back in the 60's that they could be eliminated saving a penny or two in manafacturing costs.
If the nut is @ the proper torque, no key is needed.

If you think of it, not only the price of the key, but the cost of machining the keyway and the tooling costs.

[labrati]

Originally Posted by truckntran

I suppose it could have been NOS , but someone in the parts department stole the key for a good customer.....or his own cub. That's the problem with NOS... It is OLD stock.. and there can be a reason it is still hanging around. Either it has a wee little problem like you found, or it has deteriorated some from sitting around and nobody wanted to buy it for list price, or sometimes it is just old stuff that is obsolete.

Given the amount of rust on the armature and the field coil insulators, I'm guessing if it was NOS that it was stored in outside... from the looks of the entire setup it was used and sold as NOS... the nut was at the limit of the threads, a well worn and tweaked washer was followed by another lock washer. OEM calls for a single lock washer (as best I can tell)

The collar spacer between the back of the pulley and the front plate (frame drive end).. is missing, but appears to be part of the pulley.

Further wierdness is a bearing just like the bearing in the drive end that is mounted just past what appear to be splines on the end of commutator end... I can't find this bearing anywhere in any parts diagrams...

[labrati]

Originally Posted by ol'George

FWIW:
A lot of Generators and alt.s were/are built without keyways in the pulley/shaft.
They found out back in the 60's that they could be eliminated saving a penny or two in manafacturing costs.
If the nut is @ the proper torque, no key is needed.

If you think of it, not only the price of the key, but the cost of machining the keyway and the tooling costs.

That makes sense, but there are too many other anomalies for me to accept that the key was just left out for cost savings... funky washers, weird bearings, rust on the INSIDE of the S/G...

[ol'George]

Originally Posted by labrati

Given the amount of rust on the armature and the field coil insulators, I'm guessing if it was NOS that it was stored in outside... from the looks of the entire setup it was used and sold as NOS... the nut was at the limit of the threads, a well worn and tweaked washer was followed by another lock washer. OEM calls for a single lock washer (as best I can tell)

The collar spacer between the back of the pulley and the front plate (frame drive end).. is missing, but appears to be part of the pulley.

Further wierdness is a bearing just like the bearing in the drive end that is mounted just past what appear to be splines on the end of commutator end... I can't find this bearing anywhere in any parts diagrams...

If you are talking about a ball bearing on the back end of the Generator, and a splined shaft sticking out 3/4" or so,
Delco made that type of generator for applications like a power steering pump, it bolted on the back of the Gen with 2 bolts, on early oliver tractors (6V.) and G.M cars (12V) in or about 1958 and earlier.----
I think I still have one in my pile of goodies.

[labrati]

Originally Posted by ol'George

If you are talking about a ball bearing on the back end of the Generator, and a splined shaft sticking out 3/4" or so,
Delco made that type of generator for applications like a power steering pump, it bolted on the back of the Gen with 2 bolts, on early oliver tractors (6V.) and G.M cars (12V) in or about 1958 and earlier.----
I think I still have one in my pile of goodies.

That sounds like it.. so perhaps someone put the armature off of one of those into my S/G shell?

[Amigatec]

Would that even work?? Sounds like a good way to add hydraulics to a tractor that doesn't have it.

[labrati]

Originally Posted by Amigatec

Would that even work?? Sounds like a good way to add hydraulics to a tractor that doesn't have it.

I have no idea, it works in my case.. I'm going to clean up this unit, put a woodruff key in it and mow my jungle.. still waiting on the "supplier" to return a "rebuild" unit to me in exchange for this one... I'll upload photos...

[ol'George]

Back in the day, the weak point in a generator was:
#1 the brushes would wear out and
#2 the rear bushing would wear out, usually wearing the armature shaft also.
The rear bearing Generator was desirable, and it was considered heavy duty as it had a #203 ball bearing and no worry that the oillight bushing/armature shaft would wear out.
although early generators had an oil cup to lub the bushing, folks just didn't bother to do it so in later years they eliminated them.

The bearing generators are available today (though pricy) as many of us classic car restorers need them for originality.
On the hyd pump application, they are rare and very pricy.
there just weren’t many vehicles back then that had a power steering option.
it is easier to go to the separate pump system that came out in about 1959/60
I'm attaching a picture of Generator/pump combo.
There were 4 variations of the combination, but were basically the same for this discussion purpose

[labrati]

Here are some shots of my S/G