Front PTO clutch questions

[ol'George]

ok let me try to explain some things:
The pto clutch is also a brake.
When you remove the power from the coil, the disc #3 in the drawing, comes fwd. a bit and scrapes on the stamping that is adjustable by the self locking nuts, #1, there are usually 3 of them on your style.
It is normal to have a scraping sound and somewhat difficult to turn the pulley with the clutch power off.
You are adjusting the nuts in the pix with clothes pins.
You are putting a feeler gauge in where the pencil and bic pen are.
to get your approx .010.
I have shown 2 styles of clutches.
Hope this helps.
The feeler gauge should slip in a ways not just the tip. you will be adjusting 3 nuts and checking in 3 places so it is even.

[heinriech]

Ok thanks for the further explanation. I have loosened all three nuts the same amount and I checked both inspection points at 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock and the .010" feeler didn't go in. I will head back out and continue to loosen the nuts and try to check smaller feeler gauges to get a starting point. I will report back. Thanks for the help!

[heinriech]

Update: so I have completely removed the stamped steel three point "adjustment plate". And the sprung ring is still riding on the ring behind it, which seems to be connected to the crank. I can pull the sprung ring away from the crank mounted hub. But it doesn't seem to me that I will never get any gap between the two pieces with other adjustment? Or am I misunderstood that the gap is between the stamped steel three point "adjustment plate" and the sprung ring?

[ol'George]

ok, you are checking the gap between #2 and #3 in the diagram link Roland sent.
#3 is what the stamped triangle is moving closer to #2, with the 3 self locking nuts and is the .010 gap you are trying to achieve.
#3 is a spring plate sort of.
When the electromagnet (coil) is energized it bends the springy plate to close the .010 gap and drive the pulley by friction.
if you have AC on your vehicles you have the same similar clutch, you can watch the action.
if the stamped plate is not "bending" the springy plate close enough, the electro magnet does not have enough power to pull it much over a .015 gap,thus the .010 spec.
If it is too close it will "drag" and wear out, when not energized.
---hard to describe but it is simple really.
Also when the power is not activating the coil, #3 springs back and contacts/rubs on the stamped steel triangle, thus braking the pulley/belt/mower to a stop.

[heinriech]

Originally Posted by ol'George

If it is too close it will "drag" and wear out, when not energized.

Ok I am following you. This is the issue. With the adjuster plate completely removed from the PTO, #3 is still touching #2. I can put my finger under it and move #3 away from #2. But just turning the pulley #3 rubs on #2.

So how do I move #3 away from #2? In order to achieve a gap.

And for good measure I disconnected the power and this did not change the state of the PTO.

Thanks!

[budscub]

Do you have a manual for your machine? This is what I found in the quiet line manual. Item shown as #2. Again this is from the quiet line manual and not the 82 series so I am just guessing the clutch assembly is similar.

What you will have to do is add shims between the driving disc and the driven disk. You will probably have to make them as they're had to find in the correct size.
Hope this helps you out. If you need more explanation on the function of the clutch let me know.

[ol'George]

Originally Posted by heinriech

Ok I am following you. This is the issue. With the adjuster plate completely removed from the PTO, #3 is still touching #2. I can put my finger under it and move #3 away from #2. But just turning the pulley #3 rubs on #2.

So how do I move #3 away from #2? In order to achieve a gap.

And for good measure I disconnected the power and this did not change the state of the PTO.

Thanks!

It sounds like you have a problem with either the bearing or the adapter it rides on, as you should have clearance between 2-3.
Remove the crank bolt & washer, and remove the pulley/bearing assy, be careful not to damage the pulley. usually they come off fairly easily.
I'm thinking possibly the bearing sized on the little adapter it rides on, and has been spinning on it and has worn the shoulder shorter, but just a theory.
You prolly will wind up using your spare PTO assy from your other engine, but you have to take it apart anyway, to replace it.
I can take some pix of the assy's that I have if you need, or if it might help you.

[heinriech]

Finally got back on this tonight. I have both clutches apart and sitting beside each other. The main thing that I can tell the difference is the steel basket that goes over the magnet. The boss that slides over the crank protrudes further on the clutch from the parts engine. Pictures below. Thoughts?

Parts engine:


Magnum 18 clutch:

[ol'George]

Keep the clutch parts separate,as far as what was originally together
IIRR there is 2 different length of spacers that the pulley/bearing rides on.
Thinking there were different suppliers of the clutches back then.
Is it possible that you mixed/matched parts back when you put the magnum in to replace KT engine?
(Assuming you did the repower)

With the driving hub setting in the position as you are measuring it, the pulley/bearing with spacer, when placed on top of it should have a clearance between the driving hub and driven hub, does it???
If not, there lies the problem.
Either the spacer it is worn short, or it is the wrong one for the clutch assy.
Does the bearing turn freely with your fingers inserted in the center?
any excessive movement of the bearing axially, as
that can cause the problem also of the drive/driven hub being too close together.

[R Bedell]

Thinking there were different suppliers of the clutches back then.

Yes, there was. Warner and Ogura.

Both the KT-17 and M-18 used the same PTO clutch, being 717-3044