K321 AKA Old Smokey/Drippy - Page 2

bocephus1991 · #11 10-24-2016, 12:33 AM

Some oil pans no matter what wanna leak, I know! I had to use a thin layer rvt on my pan on my k301. If you have to use some sealant, don't use a bunch. Just thin layer.

nutzboutoldies · #12 11-11-2016, 01:17 PM

Well, I finally got back around to working on this oil leak. I pulled the engine back out and removed the oil pan to inspect for cracks or warped pan etc. The pan engine mount bolt holes have helicoil inserts but don't appear to be cracked. The gasket surface looked to have high and low areas so I took it to the glass and sandpaper for a couple of hours and got the surface looking even all around. I cleaned everything and put a new gasket on and torqued the pan bolts the reinstalled the engine. After running for 15 minutes everything looked good so shut it down and left it until the next evening. Well, when I got back to check it out the next day sure enough there was a fresh puddle of oil under the engine.
I cleaned everything up again and just left it alone for a few days and the leak stopped. So last night I ran it again for 15 minutes and sure enough this morning another puddle under the engine. This is coming from what appears to be the right front as sitting on the tractor. The area behind the PTO seems to be clean but I'm going to pull the PTO tonight to inspect the seal.
This seems like it's only leaking when the engine is run and not when just sitting.
What ideas do you all have? What would you check as common leaks on these K321's.

Thanks,
Steve

ol'George · #13 11-11-2016, 01:49 PM

Look @ the breaker point push rod, sometimes they leak as well as the valve cover.
Baby powder dusted on suspect areas will reveal a lot of issues

Yosemite Sam · #14 11-11-2016, 03:25 PM

May also want to look at the hole for the cam pin, they will also leak if you didn't drive the pin in far enough.

nutzboutoldies · #15 11-11-2016, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocephus1991

Some oil pans no matter what wanna leak, I know! I had to use a thin layer rvt on my pan on my k301. If you have to use some sealant, don't use a bunch. Just thin layer.

Okay, tonight I cleaned every thing up, removed the PTO so I could inspect the crank seal at that end and ran the tractor for about 15 minutes and then put some small pieces of news paper directly under the oil pan, not on the floor but on the frame directly under the pan, and after a couple of hours the paper is now wet.

The crank seal isn't wet and the points cover isn't wet as well as the valve cover isn't wet.

This seems to be isolated at the oil pan, engine mount bolts or oil pan bolts. I am beginning to believe this is a oil pan issue.

Should I be looking for a replacement oil pan? At this point if I could find a good pan at a reasonable price it might be a good idea to replace it just to narrow down the problem. I have never been a fan of parts replacement to diagnose a problem but I'm about out of ideas on this.

john hall · #16 11-12-2016, 08:56 AM

Can't honestly say I have torn an old Kohler down but seen dad do countless ones----I always seemed to help serve as "engine and cast iron grill hoist". Let me throw out a suggestion from a machinist standpoint, not as a mechanic, as our definition of flat generally is a LOT tighter than the rest of the worlds. You mentioned you flat sanded the oil pan. OK, lets assume its flat, what about the block? I read some heli-coils were installed, was this in the block? What I am suspicioning is blisters around the holes in the block. Can you try setting the block and oil pan together with no gasket or RTV, while clean and dry. Then take a thin feeler gauge, about .002" and see if you have any gaps? If you find some keep going up in size on the gauge to determine how bad it its and then figure what needs to be done--maybe just a honing stone will solve the problem.

nutzboutoldies · #17 11-12-2016, 10:24 AM

Thanks John for this suggestion. Yes there are heli-coils installed however these are in the pan for the motor mount bolts not in the block for the pan to block bolts. As I believe I'm going to pull the pan AGAIN I will check the mating surfaces to see if there is excessive clearance between the two. Many years ago I worked as an auto mechanic in a Volkswagen dealership and was amazed how the air cooled beetle engines two block halves didn't even use gaskets on their mating surfaces. They relied on each surface being flat with no tolerance for leakage. However the push-rod tubes were another thing as leaks go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john hall

Can't honestly say I have torn an old Kohler down but seen dad do countless ones----I always seemed to help serve as "engine and cast iron grill hoist". Let me throw out a suggestion from a machinist standpoint, not as a mechanic, as our definition of flat generally is a LOT tighter than the rest of the worlds. You mentioned you flat sanded the oil pan. OK, lets assume its flat, what about the block? I read some heli-coils were installed, was this in the block? What I am suspicioning is blisters around the holes in the block. Can you try setting the block and oil pan together with no gasket or RTV, while clean and dry. Then take a thin feeler gauge, about .002" and see if you have any gaps? If you find some keep going up in size on the gauge to determine how bad it its and then figure what needs to be done--maybe just a honing stone will solve the problem.

nutzboutoldies · #18 11-12-2016, 04:37 PM

Okay, I pulled the engine out this morning and after very close inspection discovered that the pan has a hair line crack around the area of the motor mount bolt so now I'm on the hunt for another pan. This oil pan is aluminum and has had lots of other problems as heli-coils for the motor mount blots, drain plug had been striped out and the surface where the motor mounts has been beat up pretty bad so I guess it was time to replace it anyway. If anybody has a good oil pan I'm in the market. I'll post a add in the wanted section and see what I can find.
Thanks for all of your helpful suggestions.

Steve

nutzboutoldies · #19 11-13-2016, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvy

Would definately get another pan if the one you have is aluminum. Get the cast iron one and a new gasket and never worry about it again

I confirmed last night the oil pan has hair line crack in it around one of the motor mount bolt holes. Now on the hunt for a used oil pan.

nutzboutoldies · #20 11-13-2016, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol'George

Look @ the breaker point push rod, sometimes they leak as well as the valve cover.
Baby powder dusted on suspect areas will reveal a lot of issues

Thanks for the tip on using baby powder. I saw finally saw the area where oil was coming from but couldn't confirm why. I wiped the area clean and dusted it with powder and sure enough the crack was plain to see.

Hopefully can get a pan this week so I can get this back together before we get much snow.

Steve