682 CH23 swap

[SS5150]

What are you using for a CH adapter to the flex disc joint?
I got my Command today (Saturday).
My PTO mounted right up. I noted that the PTO mounting flange is roughly 1" diff from the KT flange. My Command was also approx. 3.5" bolt spacing. I have not done any drilling on the plate yet. Was hoping to find dimensions here but nothing yet.

Anyone run a mechanical oil PSI gauge on a Command? I see a plugged port in the timing cover near the filter. Is there any other options?

[RLause]

Anyone run a mechanical oil PSI gauge on a Command? I see a plugged port in the timing cover near the filter. Is there any other options?[/QUOTE]

I have a pressure switch and a pressure line mounted on top of the engine where the crankcase breather attaches. Works great.

[682ch23s]

SS150, most of your questions are answered earlier in this thread. No idea on the mech oil gauge.

Motor plate drilled using the measurements earlier in this thread. I drilled 3/8" holes because that's what I had (3 stages- 1/8, 1/4, 3/8), but 7/16 is what matches the factory holes. The factory bolts fit in 3/8, but 7/16 will give some wiggle room. It should end up fine after cleaning the holes up with a round file.

[SS5150]

I questioned it because those dimensions given in the 582 thread don't seem to match what I'm getting; I'm working off of the PTO mounting flange (so as to have the PTO in the same location as it was on the KT). There's a 1" diff between the flange and the front mounting bolt location between the KT and the Command, then adding the 3.5" center to center of the Command mounting bolts, doesn't equal the 3/4" shown on the 582 thread, I thought I was closer to 1" or maybe a hair more than 1".

Was at my Cub dealer this morning. The 64 plate is NLA. I have one from a 1641 with a number of bolt patterns, but it doesn't seem like it has the correct location for a Command either (which I thought was odd).

Anyway I'm going to work on it for a little while this morning and try to get it figured out.

[682ch23s]

I see. I'd originally measured mine based on pulley to mount holes and came up with about an inch, too. The front pulleys adjust to take up slack & maintain tension. Being off 1/4 inch means you just have less belt stretch before you're out of alignment. From the factory the motor plate to frame and engine to motor plate mounts have at least an eight inch of front-rear slop, if not more.

The extra PTO mounting bosses & excess crankshaft sliced off real nice with an abrasive cutoff wheel. Dressed the crank snout with a grinding wheel. PTO bolted up perfectly. Stick rolled up shop rag in the holes while cutting or they fill up with metal shavings.

Engine set in place; it sits in there real nice and snugs up against the foam gasket. The 3/8" holes make mount alignment persnickety. Go with 7/16" mounting holes. It's big; stick the crank snout in first, then swing the rest in. KT came out the same way, but had convenient intake/exhaust manifolds to lift. CH not so convenient to lift.

The aircleaner is a snug fit against the firewall with the 3/4" forward mount. I had to remove the metal plate & bend the aircleaner to install it; once installed it clears OK. 1/4" might make life a little easier. If I reuse the factory air cleaner cover (not required since this has a hood?), the front "Command" logo portion will have to be cut off to fit against the firewall.

I'd read somewhere that the CH crankshaft centerline is the same as the KT centerline, so reuse the engine spacers. The mounting pedestals on my CH are thicker, so I need mounting bolts 1" longer.

The flywheel mounting holes on my CH are drilled metric. I have one random bolt that fits; will update with size once I get back to the hardware store.

With this configuration, sitting on the mount spacers (not tightened), there is about a 1-1/4" (maybe a little less, but not quite 1-3/16") gap between the CH cub adapter and the ragjoint coupler. The driveshaft sticks through the ragjoint coupler about 5/8".

[682ch23s]

Got it together enough to start & drive around!

The flywheel PTO bolt holes on my CH23S are M8-1.25. I used 50MM bolts with the Cub CH adapter.

The motor bolted up exactly as-drilled; 3-8/16 bolts, 2-1/4" long worked nicely using the factory nuts. Getting the nuts on underneath the starter is a bit of a pain. The front bolts are still over the crossmember, so you have to lift & set the motor on exactly- same as the KT. I did it solo, but do yourself a favor & get a helper.

For mockup & testing purposes only, I made a 1-1/4" spacer out of plywood (2-3/16" bolt circle, 1/4" bolts, and a 3/4" center hole for the driveshaft & pilot bearing). You're not going to like it, most people aren't going to like it, and it's not a long-term solution (e.g. the first time it gets wet it's toast). But for now it's snug, and no observable runout or vibration with the engine running & a touching the driveshaft with a stick.

The throttle cable isn't long enough. The choke cable will reach. I have the choke setup as the throttle right now until I get a longer throttle cable.

The starter cable isn't long enough. I used a bolt & chunk of heavy wire to extend it, and jumped the +12 & start terminal on the CH starter. The starter seems to stay engaged just a touch longer than the key holds it; could be an artifact of the daisy-chained solenoids or CH solenoid being jumpered.

I did not buy an automotive relay yet, so I have a toggle switch mounted to a convenient frame hole for ignition shutoff.

On my CH, the white wire is ignition kill/ground, and the teal wire is charging circuit. There's a green and two reddish/orange wires in the CH harness I haven't quite figured out. They may have to do with a solenoid attached to the carburetor (internet says it's a high-speed circuit cutoff to prevent backfiring when shut off from full speed) and low oil pressure warning/shutoff features.

The muffler on my CH fits under the hood just fine, but is a side-exit. There's enough room to put a tight elbow on it & run a tailpipe out the factory location; I'll figure out a way to do that. Motor smokes blue a little bit, but it's also been sitting a while.

NEXT QUESTION: The electric PTO pulls current (visible on the ammeter), but won't actually engage. The pulley doesn't even twitch. What should I look at? Previous owner said the PTO engaged fine. Pulley & deck turn freely.

[SS5150]

I've been working on mine a little bit the last few days and I'm interested to hear how yours has been going 682CH23S

-Choke cable works for mine as well; for throttle, I bought a generic throttle cable from Menards, and I pulled the throttle cable/lever off my parts 1811. My plan is to splice the longer cable onto the 1811 throttle lever. Haven't gotten started yet. Just looking at it, the Menards cable sheath is slightly larger diameter, so it could take some work, but I want it to look OEM.

-I'm doing a 782 OEM/2000 series shaft. Got it made up Friday after work. Think they were originally Sam's idea. I cut off the engine end of the 2000 shaft, slipped it over the 782 shaft (about 6" approximately), fit it up into the chassis/engine until I was happy with the endplay. Then I drilled it on a drill press and pinned it with a coil spring pin.

-Purchased a 5ft 6ga starter wire. I wanted to run it along the right side of the tractor frame (opposite the OEM harness) but I have the rear lift on mine and the lift bar runs too close to the frame, and it would eventually scrape/short it out. I am going to run it with the OEM harness on the left, but I'm not sure how to cross the tractor neatly. I have removed the OEM starter solenoid since the CH has it's own (understood that I have a couple other wire mods to make with this).

-I'm going with the 1811 ignition switch. Roland provided me with a wiring diagram and some wire pinouts for the switch. Hoping to work on it more this week.

I was hoping to be farther along but with Dad's passing a couple weeks back we've had so much stuff to do. Spent a couple afternoons doing thank you cards, and we still aren't done (ran out of cards both times). Still this project has been enjoyable and I'm looking forward to firing it up and using it. Just trying to decide.....do I keep going....I have an 1811 three turn steering gear, 1541 front axle, and cast iron rear axle tubes? Or save that for later? It will need a paint job down the line anyway. Anyway maybe this week I'll see if I can get a few pics up.

[682ch23s]

Disassembled the PTO clutch for inspection. The field coil potting looked pretty crispy (maybe from running out of adjustment?), but DCR came in at 2.1 ohms. Put back together, adjusted the gap to .010", and it engaged fine.

Mowed the lawn & had some observations:

Motor is smoky; could be stuck PCV/breather. Looks like it might be missing a few bolts here & there. The right cylinder (facing the flywheel) was occasionally dribbling oil out of the valve cover (being blown across the cooling fins). Occasionally I'd get a good belch of blue smoke out of the exhaust. It cleared up some the longer I ran it. Probably has old gas in it, too.

Hydro had trouble maintaining speed up mild hills or during turns. Lots of whining & would slow way down. I suppose I should check the fluid level... Also the speed increases/decreases are jerky when adjusting the speed lever. Relief valves might need service too. Filter is newer. Edit: Trunion looks really good. Maybe just the tiniest bit of wear near the rear button. The user speed control plate/bracket has wobble though; I'll order some 5/8" ID .010 shims to shim the speed control plate on the trunion shaft. (http://cubfaq.com/hydrolurch.html).

Steering has a good amount of play in the middle. Makes for a wild ride combined with sudden ground speed changes. Front tires are bald.

Blades need to be sharpened, and the governor spring on that CH motor is the stiffest thing I've ever seen. Kept having to bump the throttle back up to speed while at the same time spinning the steering wheel & adjusting ground speed.

Cut quality...might be better with sharper blades and engine at proper operating speed. The grass is also mostly dormant and heavy clippings left over from the last mowing- we got a ton of rain followed by a dry spell.

[682ch23s]

The Command starts at the first turn of the key so I wired the choke open for now. Moved the governor spring to the outermost hole on the governor lever to give the throttle more pull against the governor for easier engine speed adjustment.

Added .020 of shims to the trunion speed control plate. Requires snap ring pliers, and I was able to do it removing only the driveshaft tunnel cover. Might have gotten .030, but it seemed like it would be tight and I ran out of time. Ground speed control is much improved. Control pivots could use some grease.

When under load (e.g. hills) the hydro hisses like a worn out power steering pump. Worn out? Or relief valves need attention?

Thinking about tires and weights; I have some hills and a ditch to mow. The Goodyear Softrac tires have plenty of tread on the rears, bald on the fronts. Last time I mowed the ditch I got uncomfortable and got off the tractor. I lifted a bit on the rear fenders and it really wasn't more than 10-20lbs of lift on the uphill side away from tipping over. Only had a traction problem trying to back up. Softrac pattern is close enough to modern Turfmasters and people seem to like those. Fronts I might go V61; I had 5-ribs on an old MTD 18/44 years ago and it handled really nice.

[J-Mech]

Depending on which end of the spring you moved, that may or may not have been good. If you moved it on the throttle side, fine. If you moved it on the governor side, it will change the governor's response to load. You can really affect running if you moved it on the wrong lever, the wrong direction.

Hydro's whine. That's normal. Change the oil and filter if you haven't. No relief valves on the hydro. The big cartridge valves are just charge pressure check valves. Everyone calls them the wrong thing. They ARE NOT relief valves. That hydro has no main drive system relief valve.

Spend your money on some lug tires for the rear and fluid fill them. You don't want turf tires on hills. You will end up sliding down them. Lugs won't tear up the yard.