More work than I thought it might be

[dodge trucker]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

That's a lot to digest. If I understand you want to put the hydraulic lift from the 1650 on the 129, plus some cosmetic stuff off the parts 129 to pretty up the target 129.

The hydro lift on the 1650 under the hood is basically the same as the 129, and the 129 dash tower should have the holes in it to accept the lift control handle. So swapping it out should work out OK.

Two approaches might be considered--swapping the entire rear end or just the hydrostat. Depends on brakes--if one has tractor has internal brakes and the other has disk brakes, then the linkages won't match up. So look at that.

The 1650 is such a nice machine, I'd tend to want to keep it in hopes of finding an engine. They are out there. Even if you had to put a 14 or 12 in it. It would be easier to find and install a 12hp in the 1650, than trying to get all the stuff working in the 129.

The 129 would work swell with a spring assist, a much less involved endeavor.
Go that route and you'd have two good tractors. That's what I'd do.

Huh. Just Huh.... I just got the body off of the 129 that I want to build up, and the fender pan is off, I didn't know this but this one has (had) spring assist on it already.

and there seems to be 2x the amount of dirt grease clippings and crap built up on this thing than I would think possible for its age... and yeah I know how old it is. Internally, the one that was less dirty outside, had more nasty sludge inside. The PO of this 129 did say that he had "just" changed the oil and fluid, and gave me a quart of Hy Tran to "top it off".... it was fuller and the fluid was cleaner, even though the outside was nastier.

I'm still gonna go thru with my original plan with combining the best of these 3 machines into one. but now that I see what I have, I may keep more of the remnants than I was going to originally, look around again for another Cub spec Kohler, and try to build up the other 129.... yet to be seen.... I don't have to be in a hurry to find an engine. there are a few other little pieces I'd need besides the engine....

I'm gonna leave the original rear end in this 129, and just swap out the hydros themselves. good thing that I got 2 sets of axle seals.

One difference between the pair of 129s, besides their completeness (or lack of) is that the one I am fixing up, has the serial tag on the rear end, the parts one has it on the side of the frame like the 1650 does, weird.
I ran the numbers on the fixer 129 when I got it, and it's a June '72 build. I haven't run the numbers on the other one yet. so I'm gonna just swap hydros and leave the original rear end in this tractor, both needed the cork gasket anyways, and this one is cleaner inside than the other one was. much less grime and sludge inside despite outward appearance. and I want the SN plate to stay with the machine.

and for those who said to fix up the 1650 instead of parting it, both 129s are in much better overall shape than the 1650 was, when I started. the 1650 looks like it was demo derby'd, and someone went crazy with a drill on its tower, too..... bunch of silly random ~1/8-3/16" holes below the key switch....

On the hydro situation... the #1 problem with this 129 when I got it was that it would go forward like gangbusters/ no neutral and no reverse. no matter the linkage position and yes the linkage did move the full expected range of motion... anywhere within that range it wanted to lunge forward and pretty hard, too. With both tractors of the 3 that had a trans and rear end intact, I don't see anything that jumps out at me to cause that.
When I got this machine, the PO did say that "it needs relief plungers, all of those machines need that" I don't believe that a problem with the relief plungers would cause this issue, when I have seen bad plungers, it would just "neutral out" when linkage is moved that way.


The corners of the trunnion that hold the springs has some wear in the very corners, probably 2x as much as the one out of the 1650, while the "chevy emblem" half looks good on both sets of linkage, I don't think that wear in these corners would cause that, or would it? I took a pair of channellocks and moved the linkage thru its complete range of motion while that tractor was running w/ the rear wheels jacked up and I couldn't get them to stop moving forward or go backward at all.
From what I see, I am guessing that I may have to go inside this other hydro itself, to find the issue.
I will be welding up the corner grooves in both trunnions and file them down flat and square.

[dodge trucker]

doesn't seem to be too many people commenting on this/ telling me what to look out for (pitfalls etc) or encouragement, etc but that's OK. Just so you guys know, I put a lot of what I do in this thread as a reminder later that I can look back on, in case I have any issues with this machine later so I can remember what all I did/didn't do to it.... as I get older I CRS any more..... and I am only 51...

I know you guys like pix but I'm a lot more "mechanical" and not so "techy". I'd still be happy w/a flip phone if I could find another... but enuf about me.


well, going back together... all cleaned up the best I could with butyl based degreaser, my (not so powerful) power washer, and a lot of good old scraping/scrubbing.... have the ported pump mounted, new engine side cup and coupler, new fan blade, new driveshaft (Thanks Jeff!!!)

I only had 2 QL rag joints on hand, I see that the older WF machines call for different one, IDK what the difference might be, bolt spacing on QL rag matched up so that's what I have in there at present.... don't know what might have been different with the "right" rag joint for a 1X9....

rebuilt the steering column from the 1650 and put that in there, cleaned up 40-ish years of grunge and crap out of the inside, bearings looked good, put in "steering improver" thrust bearing, regreased, put in new lash adjuster screw (thanks again Jeff) and it's mounted. I used this column because the hydro control valve already mounted to it, thought it would save me a step, gonna have to cut the bottom corner from the mount plate so the cylinder has room to mount..... the factory 1X9 hydro valve must mount different....
nothing a Sawzall won't fix.... structurally won't miss that corner on the mount plate/ see some on Ebay missing that corner anyways.

waiting for my son to finish making me new hoses from the valve to the cylinder, just because of the age of them.... nice he has the job that he does...
original wiring harness not too bad, 1 regulator wire has a bare spot that needs fixed, not bad enuf to replace the whole harness at the moment, just want the machine running again..... plan to pull back completely apart later once mechanical bugs are gone and I get to mow with it a bit for complete sandblast and repaint....
spirol pins missing from lift rockshaft on inside if frame... PO put bolts and nuts, shaved the bolt heads for clearance, good and tight, no slop....

ready to put fender pan back on, swap parts from the beat up 1650 tower to the 129's original tower... it's the nicest and straightest of the 3 towers that I have.

once I tear into the original 129's hydro pump and check out that spirol pin being broke idea, if that's all it winds up to be, that helps make up my mind as to what to do with the other partial 129 that I have.... I already have all new seals and gaskets in the 1650's rear end and have new material here to reline those brake pads.... and I have the spring assist that I didn't know was on this 129 to put on there as well.... the "parts" 129 frame seems the best of what I have here...
I have the new seals and gaskets in the 129s original rear end too, , all full of Farm and Fleet's version of Hy Tran....

In case anyone is following... can I wire in a newer (like what would be on a gear starter equipped Kohler) regulator or am I stuck with the points style regulator with a starter generator?

[sawdustdad]

Following but not commenting much 'cause it sounds like you're on a roll and extremely capable of doing anything you put your mind to. So carry on!

There are after market electronic ignition kits for these engines. kirkengines.com is one source, though I've never used their stuff. I've heard good stuff about them.

If the swash plate to control shaft pin in the hydro is broken, I'd be surprised but it could explain the inability to control the hydro and that situation would, I believe, cause it to run away forward.

The service manual has very specific instructions on swash plate removal, so my advice is follow carefully. If you mess up and drive the pin too far, you'll have much bigger problems.

The hydro is a fascinating device. So ingenious, yet so simple in concept.

Yeah, pictures or it didn't happen, BTW

[ironman]

Originally Posted by dodge trucker

In case anyone is following... can I wire in a newer (like what would be on a gear starter equipped Kohler) regulator or am I stuck with the points style regulator with a starter generator?

Generators and points style regulators have been working fine since before you were born (you said you're 51) so why you'd use the term "stuck" makes no sense. But the short answer to your question is yes, you're "stuck".

[dodge trucker]

not too worried about going to electronic ignition, points on engine don't go bad that often/ only asked about other-than-points regulator, because those regulators seem to be getting fewer and farther between/ and I DON'T DON'T DON'T want Chinese parts. just made that mistake with a Chinese fuel pump on a different machine with a Kohler K series, lasted 1 hour of run time, bought a 2nd as a backup/spare, didn't even take that one out of box, it went right in the trash with the one that lasted an hour. good thing they were only like $13/ ea. wound up finding a used OEM in my stash, I put that one on there and as good as new again.

I have a regulator for this machine, but don't for the other one, if I decide to piece the 2nd one back together.... mostly asked that question for future consideration of that machine, and for in case the one on the 1st machine decides not to do its job no more.....

[dodge trucker]

OK.... putting the lift valve and such back in today... I have seen pix of hydro lift 1X9s and I know how the 1650 came apart/ and what the line and hose configuration was like on that tractor. The 1650 had the valve mounted to the front (closer to the engine) of the steering column, the 1X9 appears to have mounted it to the side of the steering column. In fact I used the 1650 steering column, after a rebuild in the 129 just so I wouldn't have to chance breaking the U bolts that hold the mounting plate to the column...

I had new hoses made from the valve to the cylinder just due to age. and I have the steel lines that came from the 1650. I know that the hydro controls (F-N-R) for the 2 series are set up differently, too. IS there something on a 1X9 in stock configuration, that would be in the way of mounting the valve and such on a 1X9, as it came off of the 1650?

I don't have the tower back in place yet, but with the driveshaft in place and the hydro shift rod in place/as it was originally configured on the 129, so far I don't see any source for interference. The steel lines from the 1650 seem to be in pretty good shape. I'd like to use them, instead of having to find the ones as they would have been with the 129 hydro lift valve mounted to the side.... and they don't look like anything I could flare up here at home, as I have made too many brake, fuel and trans cooler lines for cars/trucks to count over the years.... everything I have is made for 45* flares not 37* JIC stuff....

[ironman]

I am not familiar with the mounting system on the 1650 so I cannot help you there, but a thought I have on it is that because of the fact that the 1650 can be set up with a dual control system, I would go with those parts in case I'd want to add hydraulic ports somewhere down the road. A lot of what would be needed would already be in place. Just thinkin' out loud.

[dodge trucker]

hadn't thought of that.

[dodge trucker]

ok.... that answers that.... looks like itll fit fine with all hydro components mounted to the 129 as they were mounted in the 1650... had to drill 1 hole in the 129 tower as it had the bushing in place for the hydro lever on the right side, I knocked one off the 1650 tower (it's not in great shape anyway), measured it out, drilled the hole on the leftside of the tower and tacked the bushing from the1650 tower into place... a MIG is one of the most handy things to have around....

also (not related to hydro retrofit) but more tack welds involved, the #10-24 machine screws that hold the fiberglass cap to the tower's metal snapped off, tried welding nuts to the stubs and struck out... so I knocked them off/ broke the original tack welds that held the nuts to the under side of the tower, will tack in some replacements while it is off.... this 129's tower is the nicest of the ones I have so it will stay with its original machine.

[twoton]

Originally Posted by dodge trucker

......In case anyone is following...

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