ISO mounts questions - Page 3

twoton · #21 08-23-2015, 08:34 AM

rdeyoe,

Really enjoying your thread. Thanks for sharing this with us and everyone else who is chiming in with all the great information. Keep it going, and more pictures!

rdeyoe · #22 08-24-2015, 02:09 AM

Ok. I got to the pan a bit tonight, after rebuilding a Mitsu 3.0 v6 all day. You know if you crack one piston ring, there's no where to get another single ring?

Had to spend the day in a scrap yard finding a 3.0 without heads on to get ONE ring out of. But that's another problem...

I drilled out the mount holes in the pan with a 27/64" bit. Ran a 1/2"-13 tap down nearly all the way in. The 1/2"-13 is the outside size of the keyserts i'm going to use. Then i needed to heat the whole pan to do the aluminum brazing. Tried with my kerosene bullet heater...i've measured that thing to 600 degrees. Unfortunately, it has a thermostat that kicked it off 'cause it's already 90 degrees here! Tried a heat gun and after a half hour, still not hot enough (the brazing rods need 735 or so and aluminum wicks away heat quickly). Had to go to the gas grill method to get any heat. I suppose it doesn't help having the 1/2"-13 bolt in it. Wanted that to keep the threads straight.

Finally got to a reasonable amount of heat (read: a LOT) and heated locally with a propane torch. Once you get the rods to start melting, it's pretty easy to work with. Didn't really build up cleanly like i wanted, but I did get probably 1/4" or so. Pulled the bolt after getting one done and moved it to the next hole...rinse....repeat.

Let it cool a good long while after all four were done up then just hand filed them flat. Was debating whether to add more to one, but it takes too long. Got the four pads filed down, using the pan surface and a straight edge to get the angle close. I tried to run a keysert down in one, but the threads are a bit tight. I've chased them with the tap again, but still a bit snug to get the insert in easily. Think i'm going to slot the insert so i can get some torque on it (knocked a couple pins off of one). I'm going to run them just flush so there's a little steel there to clamp / beat on.

I'll get some more pics of the finished product when it's a finished product...

johncub7172 · #23 08-24-2015, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkw3614

RDeyoe,

None of the AQS engines had balance gears in them. Kohler didn't put them in when they built the engine. Those engines in Cub Cadets built before the Quietline, those which started with a starter/generator, did have the gears.

With the engine out of your tractor, it is an easy repair to squeeze the front axle channel together. Here is how you do it: http://cubfaq.com/axlepivot.html Be sure that you replace the pivot pin. That pin should be available from the sponsors above.

While you are at it, Rebuilding your steering box is a good idea, too. Here is how you do it: http://cubfaq.com/steeringrebuild.html Check your tie rod ends on both the tie rod and the drag link.

Before you know it, your tractor will be like new.

Brian Wittman

Not totally true. Some Kohler AQS engines used in the IH Cub Cadet Quiet Line models did in fact have balance gears in them. I will venture to say they were the later models. I have full proof and documentation that.

RDeyoe, I added a shim between the c-channel and front axel on mine. That worked just fine. If it should loosen up again, I'd go with a grade 8 bolt and squeeze that c-channel together and keep it there.

The QL's are a very good garden tractor. I like the IH side of Cub Cadet more than the later. And these QL's retain the last of the true IH design, like the cast iron transmission, and the heavy cast iron front grills. And no plastic or aluminum to mention.

rdeyoe · #24 08-24-2015, 12:35 PM

Heheheh johncub, "no aluminum to mention" right on the end of a pic storm of oil pan repair!

Just kidding!

I have seen some posts around of AQS owners that found balance gears, and I know that's probably a rare case so I figured i'd double check anyway. Had to take the pan off for the brazing thing sooooo...

The shims, are these just washers, or laminated shims or hardened <somethings>? Approximately how much in shims? Need to check the pin bushings too. I'm thinking just clamping that c-channel (looks like it would take a few ft/lbs to get it clamped!) that shimming may be the way to go. I've got a decent amount of fore/aft movement in that axle beam. I haven't taken the axle pin out yet...too many projects getting in the way right now, but I plan to before the motor goes back in. Was going to try this weekend, but looks like the upcoming weekend will be it.

johncub7172 · #25 08-24-2015, 02:50 PM

Oh, I know. Open mouth, insert foot!

It's good to see and know someone repairing this oil pan. Come a time when that's all they'll be able to do. I've said enough, I'll just sit in the bleachers and enjoy the information and comments.

Yes, I recall using red Loctite on the pan-to-engine bolts too.

rdeyoe · #26 08-26-2015, 12:01 AM

Got around to doing the inserts and final flattening out. I made a tool for the keyserts out of a 3/8" steel bushing from Lowes. I used a hacksaw to cut slots to grab the pins on the inserts and used a bolt to hold the slots and insert together. Chased the threads out with a 1/2"-13 bolt as they were a bit tight on the insert. I noticed that driving in the inserts, they had to cut into the zinc a little so there was a bit of force and those pins can pop out. Lightly torquing the bolt/bushing combo helped keep some of the force off of the pins. There's special tools to drive these things in, but they're rather costly. I put them in not quite flush with my surface and drove the pins down with a drift that I had drilled a centering divot in. Some pins bent and snapped, but i got most of them in. Also used loctite to hold the inserts too. I don't have a drill press yet, and a couple of the bolts weren't exactly plumb, but straight enough. After getting the inserts in, i filed them flush and squared up the surfaces a bit, checking with a straight edge scale.

I noticed when i set the pan in the cradle, that i had a slight wobble, maybe .030" or less. A little more filing on one pad to level and it is solid now. Took it all back apart and ran some black undercoating on the pan and cradle. The bolts are solid now, and steel, as opposed to the wobbly, worn/loose threads that were in the aluminum. I should be able to retain them with just lock washers. I got some close up pics sitting in the cradle, and the gap toward the outsides of the pads is gone...much better contact surface.

The aluminum brazing rods are mostly zinc, so it sets pretty hard, probably much harder than the surrounding aluminum. It also bonds really well. I degreased (brake cleaner) and scrubbed with a stainless wire brush, it's not going anywhere now. The amount of heat to get the rods to melt was pretty high, but once you get them going it's not bad to work with...pretty simple really. I got the rods at Rural King...about $11.00 for eight of them. I used two of them, so I've got several for the next project.

I think those pads could take quite a bit of pounding now if they needed to, but with the steel threads and locking the bolts in, that should never happen again. Can't wait to get it mounted and try those isolators out!

twoton · #27 08-26-2015, 06:41 AM

Looks great rdeyoe, you like those keyserts better than helicoils?

rdeyoe · #28 08-26-2015, 10:22 AM

twoton- I considered helicoils. Have a few in my shop, but they're all metric since most of my other work is automotive (now that i think about it, probably only the 1450 and my 1981 Johnson outboard use SAE anymore). I'd have to get a kit to do the 3/8-16 helicoil and those kits are pricey and would come with several coils i'd never use. I barely use the metric ones i have...

Never used keyserts before. Got them because they were available at a local fastener supplier. Was actually looking for ez-lock inserts. Supplier only had three in stock but had a box of keyserts. Went over and looked at both. The ez-locks were heavier duty....much thicker walls on them. Don't know that the oil pan would have enough material to put those into, or there wouldn't be much left when done. The keyserts were higher than the ez-lock ($5 each keyserts, about $2 for ez-lock), but looked like a much better fit. I liked the full steel inserts over the helicoil so I could file off excess and have a steel contact area. Nothing wrong with helicoils, and they would have been easier. I just wanted a beefier assembly.

twoton · #29 08-26-2015, 07:02 PM

Yeah, those keyserts do look a bit more rugged than the helicoils. I used helicoils;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...&postcount=168

Reading that part about using the brake cleaner to degrease prior to the brazing made me think of this post by Jeff in PA;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...166#post333166

Be safe.

Alvy · #30 08-26-2015, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoton

Yeah, those keyserts do look a bit more rugged than the helicoils. I used helicoils;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...&postcount=168

Reading that part about using the brake cleaner to degrease prior to the brazing made me think of this post by Jeff in PA;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...166#post333166

Be safe.

I think that there also has to be argon involved to create the death smoke but at any rate yes, good disclaimer none the less.