Ugh! Blew the engine in my 682 today.

[MWShaw]

Originally Posted by Matt G.

Crankcase halves are line-bored for the crank and cam, so on an engine you care about I wouldn't swap one. I'm also not totally sure you can use Series II case halves on a Series I since the oiling system is so different.

Yeah your right, I was just throwing out options.

I would be tempted to take a piece of 1/4" sheet aluminum, scribe that hole on it (the one the rod made in the case), cut it to fit, then take it and have it TIG welded shut.

Thats what I should have done with mine, but mine is a series II.

[ol'George]

Something to think about and was touched on before,
is a person can use a mag-18 or series II from other brands, or parts there of.
And as Matt mentioned, I see people selling crank case halves individually.
They are useless as they are machined as a unit @ the factory--- as in, both halves together.
Either these individuals are attempting a rip off, or are unknowledgeable of this fact.
Myself, I took the time and trouble to find A good M-18.
It happened to be in a neglected CC 1720 for $250.
I went to the trouble/machining to flip the vertical engine to Horiz.
I did the valves/seals but no re ring, as it wasn't needed.
I have put 300+ hours on it and @ this time is just fine.
The series 1 was just that, the first design.
The m-18 has stronger/more webbing in the block, full high pressure lube and to the rods, Mahl forged pistons, larger taper on the flywheel, magneto Ign. to replace points and the later ones have 30* valve angle.
they were the last and best of the flat 2 cyl Kohlers.
It's rewarding to mow hours @ a time, knowing "ididit" myself.
It all depends what your capabilities/equipment are.
Some like a plug & play, others want a challenge, nothing wrong with that.

[ol'George]

Originally Posted by MWShaw

Yeah your right, I was just throwing out options.

I would be tempted to take a piece of 1/4" sheet aluminum, scribe that hole on it (the one the rod made in the case), cut it to fit, then take it and have it TIG welded shut.

Thats what I should have done with mine, but mine is a series II.

Just for giggles, I attempted to weld the crankcase of the holed junk series I
I had.
The warping caused was terrific, and had it been a successful "patch", I believe there would of been problems with hairline cracks/leakage,
also that is a mounting area for the heads.
The webbing on series 1 is minimal.
Just my .$02

[MWShaw]

Originally Posted by ol'George

And as Matt mentioned, I see people selling crank case halves individually.
They are useless as they are machined as a unit @ the factory--- as in, both halves together.
Either these individuals are attempting a rip off, or are unknowledgeable of this fact.

No I know, I wasn't planing to sell it to him, I was just going to send it (for shipping costs) that and that set of standard rods I have. The O.P. was talking about swapping in a "K" motor for a short term band aid, I was throwing out another "band aid" idea. But yeah, most likely not a good one.

Originally Posted by ol'George

Just for giggles, I attempted to weld the crankcase of the holed junk series I
I had.
The warping caused was terrific, and had it been a successful "patch", I believe there would of been problems with hairline cracks/leakage,
also that is a mounting area for the heads.
The webbing on series 1 is minimal.
Just my .$02

I have never seen the inside of a series I. Point well taken.

[thenrie]

As for case halves, any decent machine shop can line-bore a case. That's not a real issue. My problem is just the decision whether to rebuild, or replace with a used engine. I hate like heck NOT to rebuild a motor, but it seems this one is poorly designed to begin with. So, if I replace with a used KT17, it would be a short-term solution at best. That's probably the cheapest solution if I were planning on just getting the 682 back together and selling it, which at this point I'm considering. It might get me through the summer. There's a KT17 Series 1 on ebay right now with no bidders at $100 within about 2.5 hours of me, but I can't get the seller to give me a compression check or even look to see that the case is not holed already. I can't see bidding on it and risk buying another blown motor.

Appears to me that I can buy a used Kohler Command or a B&S Vanguard for less than what it would cost to rebuild the KT17. Due to the unavailability of parts, I would have to spend a lot of time finding crossover parts and having them machined to fit, in order to do a decent rebuild (translation: expensive).

So, if I buy a Kohler Command motor, I understand my electric pto will bolt up, but that I need an adapter for the driveshaft. Does anybody make an adapter, or will I have to make one?

I checked out the site for the Vanguard engines already converted, but the price is out of my ballpark. I didn't see where they sell just the shaft adapter.

Which engine is easier to adapt to the 682, the Command or the Vanguard? Which engine is better?

[thenrie]

Just had another thought. MWShaw, hang on to those rods for me. I'm going to go down and see whether my crank can be polished out. If it can, I'm going to make a block-off plate for the hole in my case and bolt and JBWeld it in place. There is no oil pressure there to make it leak and the webbing is all still in place around the damaged area. I'm thinking a simple block-off plate might just do the trick and get me through long enough to get a replacement engine adapted and in place. I can drill the rod caps, no problem, and I have the one good one for a pattern. Now, I wouldn't want to put an engine repaired like that in an airplane, but on a garden tractor it might get me through the summer for the price of shipping a couple rods, polishing one crank journal, and a set of rod bearings.

[ol'George]

Originally Posted by thenrie

As for case halves, any decent machine shop can line-bore a case. That's not a real issue. My problem is just the decision whether to rebuild, or replace with a used engine. I hate like heck NOT to rebuild a motor, but it seems this one is poorly designed to begin with. So, if I replace with a used KT17, it would be a short-term solution at best. That's probably the cheapest solution if I were planning on just getting the 682 back together and selling it, which at this point I'm considering. It might get me through the summer. There's a KT17 Series 1 on ebay right now with no bidders at $100 within about 2.5 hours of me, but I can't get the seller to give me a compression check or even look to see that the case is not holed already. I can't see bidding on it and risk buying another blown motor.

Appears to me that I can buy a used Kohler Command or a B&S Vanguard for less than what it would cost to rebuild the KT17. Due to the unavailability of parts, I would have to spend a lot of time finding crossover parts and having them machined to fit, in order to do a decent rebuild (translation: expensive).

So, if I buy a Kohler Command motor, I understand my electric pto will bolt up, but that I need an adapter for the driveshaft. Does anybody make an adapter, or will I have to make one?

I checked out the site for the Vanguard engines already converted, but the price is out of my ballpark. I didn't see where they sell just the shaft adapter.

Which engine is easier to adapt to the 682, the Command or the Vanguard? Which engine is better?

ok,
let me throw something out there for you to chew on:
When you "line bore" ya have to mill the parting line of the cases to decrease the clearance so you can get a true round 360* hole in both cam bore and the main journals,
when you line bore it concentric.
Now you have a case that is narrower so to speak, and it being an opposed design, the cylinders mount to the case halves so the rods are what ever you
milled off the parting line longer, it is possible that they push the pistons out of the cylinders enough to interfere with the head.
Or worse,
the case halves don't line up enough to even allow them to be line bored, as the journal bores are offset too much. Again this would be just some of the negatives in a worst case situation.
Then there is the lifter/valve length increase due to the parting line machining.
My $.02 is I see lots of work-$$ for a flawed first design.
It ain't like milling the main caps/line boring on a small block chevy.
Please understand, I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade.

[MWShaw]

Originally Posted by thenrie

Just had another thought. MWShaw, hang on to those rods for me. I'm going to go down and see whether my crank can be polished out. If it can, I'm going to make a block-off plate for the hole in my case and bolt and JBWeld it in place. There is no oil pressure there to make it leak and the webbing is all still in place around the damaged area. I'm thinking a simple block-off plate might just do the trick and get me through long enough to get a replacement engine adapted and in place. I can drill the rod caps, no problem, and I have the one good one for a pattern. Now, I wouldn't want to put an engine repaired like that in an airplane, but on a garden tractor it might get me through the summer for the price of shipping a couple rods, polishing one crank journal, and a set of rod bearings.

No bearings, the rod itself is the bearing!!!

Cost will be gasket set, under $50.00 on ebay.

I'll hold them for you, keep me posted.

[clint]

A couple of things to think about when you start paying a machine shop you can purchase a magnum 18 real soon !! that is unless you know someone who owns a machine shop, and you are on good terms, and real close etc.. I would guess $60 an hour and that's not anything requiring a special setup (line boring is a special setup). Magnum 18 of all the things said on how much better they are electronic ignition is worth all the trouble sooo much better in my opinion (and most others) even if you find a KT17 series II. When I invest time, money in changing an engine I always confirm the engine before doing it. Als B&S Vanguard would be a find engine, and seem to be more plentiful used. I think everyone has given you good advice on replacing your engine with a known good KT17 series II (research series II well if you don't already know) a magnum 18 (cream of the crop) and B&S Vanguard

[ol'George]

Originally Posted by clint

A couple of things to think about when you start paying a machine shop you can purchase a magnum 18 real soon !! that is unless you know someone who owns a machine shop, and you are on good terms, and real close etc.. I would guess $60 an hour and that's not anything requiring a special setup (line boring is a special setup). Magnum 18 of all the things said on how much better they are electronic ignition is worth all the trouble sooo much better in my opinion (and most others) even if you find a KT17 series II. When I invest time, money in changing an engine I always confirm the engine before doing it. Als B&S Vanguard would be a find engine, and seem to be more plentiful used. I think everyone has given you good advice on replacing your engine with a known good KT17 series II (research series II well if you don't already know) a magnum 18 (cream of the crop) and B&S Vanguard

Well said, I couldn't agree more.
The engines are out there, one just has to be patient if possible, and do their homework.