Wide frame PTO OK on a Narrow frame?

[mike melillo]

Originally Posted by tonka.scout800a

Here's a couple pics of my new bearing if it helps anyone. Haven't had a chance to remove the old one yet.

Stens 225-217 Bearing With Collar Cub Cadet IH-60071-C92

Funny how the aftermarket bearing doesn't include the internal ring and the OEM does.
Mike

[OffTime]

Originally Posted by mike melillo

I think your saying opposing things.

I guess I don't understand how you think I am saying opposing things. I read over my own post several times, and the best I can tell, it all says the same thing. It is probably some misunderstanding of my way of expressing and your way of understanding what I expressed.

I'm not here to argue and I don't want to be a jerk. In my more than 25 years of being mechanic, I have done it both ways. I can tell you from experience that you are more likely to have failure if a collar is tightened opposite the direction of the shaft. If the collar is tightened opposite direction of rotation of the shaft, any resistance in the bearing will tend to unlock the collar from the bearing. I've seen it happen. On the contrary, if a collar is tightened same direction as rotation, any resistance in the bearing will tend to keep the bearing tight. Also, all service literature I have read on any application says to lock the collar in the direction of rotation. I'm done on this subject.

[darkminion_17]

.....

[mike melillo]

I'm not here to argue and I don't want to be a jerk.

Same here, I have no intention of pissing people off. Sorry if what I said was offensive. I'm simply trying to flush out the proper procedure.

I have stated my thoughts and reasoning, but I'm beginning to think it's semantics of how the problem is being perceived. If you or anyone is interested in expanding pun the paragraph below than fine, If not, than thats fine too. We can agree to disagree.

I can tell you from experience that you are more likely to have failure if a collar is tightened opposite the direction of the shaft. If the collar is tightened opposite direction of rotation of the shaft, any resistance in the bearing will tend to unlock the collar from the bearing. I've seen it happen. On the contrary, if a collar is tightened same direction as rotation, any resistance in the bearing will tend to keep the bearing tight.

Please elaborate; Resistance from what? Like I said previously, I don't agree with you're reasoning but I'm open mined enough to consider other sides to the problem. But with that please don't feel threatened if I challenge what your saying to make an honest attempt of arriving at the truth.

Mike

[DoubleO7]

Originally Posted by mike melillo

Please elaborate; Resistance from what?
Mike

Even if you only had the bearing on the shaft, there would still be a slight amount of resistance to turn between the inner and outer race.
Bearings help reduce resistance but there is still some there because of the bearings and the grease.
Technically..

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by darkminion_17

.....

LMFAO

I'm not crazy about the yellow dots, but that is just funny as "HECK"

[mike melillo]

I haven’t had a moment to put this together, but here’s the answer, and why.
The locking collar needs to be rotated in such a way that the naturally occurring forces inherently tighten it, rather than loosen it. Now with that said, looking at the end of the crankshaft as seen from the front of the tractor (looking at the PTO clutch) the crankshaft rotates to the Left, counter clockwise.
So now consider the bearing for a moment. The inner part of the bearing that slides on the crankshaft (inner race) can spin freely in either direction. The locking collar prevents that rotation of the inner race on the crank shaft. That collar can be rotated in either direction to lock the bearing to the crankshaft. So when the crankshaft rotates counter clockwise the resistance that may occur (mostly only if the bearing isn’t spinning freely) is trying to turn the inner race of the bearing on the shaft in a clockwise direction. Therefore the locking collar should be rotated in the opposite direction of that force to maintain its hold. That direction would then be counter clockwise, or more simply said in the same direction as the crankshaft rotation, like the manual says.
The reason for this is because if the bearing fails, and sizes, it will apply force in opposes direction of the crankshaft rotation, and therefore help insure that the PTO doesn’t fly off. The reality is that if the bearing rotates freely there won’t be any resistance, and with that either way you lock the collar won’t matter, as it just keeps the race from spinning on the crank and wearing it out. That resistance is negligible under normal conditions, and that’s why it’s not a big issue. But the most redundant way for safety purpose is to lock the collar in the direction of crankshaft rotation. As in the event of a bearing failure it will reduce the chance of the inner race galling the crank, and potentially help keep the PTO from smacking you in the face.
My hang up was that I wasn’t considering the bearing failure. I was thinking of the inner race, and crank turning as one (since you don’t want them to move independently), and that the rotation to the Left of that unit should require the locking collar to be tightened in the opposite direction of rotation (clockwise). But when I considered the other possibilities, I realized the truth. And that’s all I was looking for.
I hope this helps others.

Mike

[J-Mech]

Mike, your making this way entirely too complicated.

You always lock a lock collar the same direction as shaft rotation. Period. Check any service manual for anything with a bearing with a locking collar, bearing manual, experienced mechanic..... they all say the same. Set screw locks the collar to the shaft, shaft rotates and locks the collar to the bearing. End of story.

[OffTime]

Originally Posted by mike melillo

I haven’t had a moment to put this together, but here’s the answer, and why.
The locking collar needs to be rotated in such a way that the naturally occurring forces inherently tighten it, rather than loosen it. Now with that said, looking at the end of the crankshaft as seen from the front of the tractor (looking at the PTO clutch) the crankshaft rotates to the Left, counter clockwise.
So now consider the bearing for a moment. The inner part of the bearing that slides on the crankshaft (inner race) can spin freely in either direction. The locking collar prevents that rotation of the inner race on the crank shaft. That collar can be rotated in either direction to lock the bearing to the crankshaft. So when the crankshaft rotates counter clockwise the resistance that may occur (mostly only if the bearing isn’t spinning freely) is trying to turn the inner race of the bearing on the shaft in a clockwise direction. Therefore the locking collar should be rotated in the opposite direction of that force to maintain its hold. That direction would then be counter clockwise, or more simply said in the same direction as the crankshaft rotation, like the manual says.
The reason for this is because if the bearing fails, and sizes, it will apply force in opposes direction of the crankshaft rotation, and therefore help insure that the PTO doesn’t fly off. The reality is that if the bearing rotates freely there won’t be any resistance, and with that either way you lock the collar won’t matter, as it just keeps the race from spinning on the crank and wearing it out. That resistance is negligible under normal conditions, and that’s why it’s not a big issue. But the most redundant way for safety purpose is to lock the collar in the direction of crankshaft rotation. As in the event of a bearing failure it will reduce the chance of the inner race galling the crank, and potentially help keep the PTO from smacking you in the face.
My hang up was that I wasn’t considering the bearing failure. I was thinking of the inner race, and crank turning as one (since you don’t want them to move independently), and that the rotation to the Left of that unit should require the locking collar to be tightened in the opposite direction of rotation (clockwise). But when I considered the other possibilities, I realized the truth. And that’s all I was looking for.
I hope this helps others.

Mike

Not trying to be smart, but yes, that is what I was trying to say.

[darkminion_17]

Great analysis...those engineers at ih knew what they were designing was still prone to failure.

The horse is finally dead