Pulled the head...

[DeltaCub]

Originally Posted by Cougar281

Very interesting. My manual is the 'Blue Ribbon Service' manual for models 72, 104, 105, 124 & 125, part GSS-1398 found here (I don't think it's where I got the manual, but it's the same one).

420/12=35

Divide "inch"pounds by 12 to get "ft"pounds.

[Cougar281]

Originally Posted by DeltaCub

420/12=35

Divide "inch"pounds by 12 to get "ft"pounds.

That's what I posted

Apparently another manual calls for 30 ft/lb.

[twoton]

Don says 35, that's good enough for me.

[Alvy]

Originally Posted by twoton

Don says 35, that's good enough for me.

That's what I do on the 10s and 12s

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by Cougar281

My carb 'rebuild' seems to have worked so far (so far no sign of fuel leaking out of it when it's not running like it did before). The starting point for the carb in the cub cadet manual seemed to be a pretty good starting point and with a little tweaking of the idle adjustment, got it idling nicely. Does seem to be running a bit better now. Since I got it good and hot, I'm going to let it sit at least until tonight, maybe tomorrow morning and re-torque the bolts.

If the idle screw is the only one you "tweaked" then you need to run that bad boy up to high idle and check the following:
*High idle engine speed
*adjust the high speed (main) fuel needle as the book specifies. Beginning from the initial adjustment, back the screw out until the engine begins to stumble, then turn it in until it begins to stumble. The book says the perfect setting is between those two points..... I say it's about 1/4 turn to the rich side of those two points. Maybe even 1/2 turn. When you are setting it this way, the engine is under no load. When the engine gets loaded, it needs more fuel than it does when not under load, and I also think that a "middle" setting leaves it a bit on the lean side. I prefer to run these air cooled Kohler motors a little on the rich side. Especially with the ethanol fuel we now have. (Not a slam on ethanol, it is a factual statement based on the fact that there is more alcohol in the fuel than there was in the 60's (none) when the manual was written. More alcohol = more fuel needed. Plain and simple)

Originally Posted by Cougar281

Side note: I did a quick search to see if there were any different, updated torque specs, and in a thread I found, J-Mech mentioned to re-torque after a heat cycle (something I already knew to do) and that it's in the manual - I have every confidence that it's in the manual he has, but it's not in the Cub Cadet manual that I have, unless it's in some radically different location from the torque specs on page 1-20 and 1-21 (which BTW, in case anyone is looking for the specs in the future, the Cub cadet manual specifies 420 in/lb for the K301, which comes out to 35 ft/lb).

Do yourself a favor and download the Kohler manual. The engine section in the IH book is a condensed version of the Kohler manual. Much more detail in the Kohler manual, and who better to write the book than the engine manufacturer.

Originally Posted by Cougar281

Once thing I noticed in the manual after the fact that I've NEVER heard of before, is the CC manual recommends to soak new HGs in water before assembly. Any thoughts on that? Is it just a 'holdover' from the era that the manual was written and the materials of the time?

I have read that in the manual before, and it's just as you think. It had to do with the material the original gasket was made of, and an "era" thing. No need to do it anymore. Not real sure why they did it anyway.

Originally Posted by Cougar281

*but if he tells me 'carbs are better than FI', well, not so much ), but at the same time, I know that people can be 'set in their ways' and sometimes, just because one way 'works', that doesn't mean there there isn't another way to do the same thing that might even be better - without solid proof that the 'other way' isn't as good or is worse, that's where opinion comes into play (failure alone isn't really an indicator of one way being better or worse ANYTHING can and will fail at some point). Some things are difficult to impossible to improve upon and some things can be improved upon.

Carburetors are a PERFECT example. Yes, they 'work'. But they suck. They are imprecise, barely controlled fuel leaks. I'd rather have a Fuel injected computer controlled engine any day of the week. FI is SO much more flexible. On both my car and truck, I can have multiple tunes in the ECM and with a flip of a switch, I can go from reasonable fuel economy and tame street manners to HOLD ON TO YOUR BUTT!! The truck more than the car - The truck has five tunes from stock (By the time all is said and done, maybe 275-300 at the wheels) to at least 450hp/800Tq at the wheels. You're not going to get near that much change out of a gas engine with just tuning. With a carb, you can only have one or the other. If you set a carb up for some kind of economy, you can pretty much forget about any serious power, and if you set it up for serious power, you can pretty much forget about any kind of economy.

.........................................

My only point being that some people prefer carbs over FI for whatever reason - it's what they're used to, they've been working with them forever, etc, but that doesn't mean they're better. Same thing goes for the condenser vs transdenser. Is the Transdenser truly better? I don't know. But it does work. Of course, in the case of the CC, it's not like you can retrofit FI onto it (or pretty much any single cylinder engine - as far as I know, even brand new lawnmowers are still carbed). The example is more relevant with my friends '76 F100 - he HATES the carb in that and desperately wants to swap in a 5.4L.

Well..... I'm not going to get in a pissing match about carbs VS EFI (or anything of the like) on this thread, or this site. I grow far weary of arguing with "experts" that work as *insert whatever you want* during the day, and turn wrenches on their own cars at night and think after watching a few videos they know all about it. Heck, I get tired of debating this sort of thing with other so called "techs".

For the record, there are a lot of new lawn mowers with EFI engines in them.

Your friend with the '76 F600..... Yeah... I'd do about anything to a Ford to try and make it better. They need all the help they can get. Too bad he can't find a good mechanic to fix it for him.

Enough on that topic by far.


As far as the whole trandenser goes..... well..... like I said. Whatever makes you happy. I'm not spending $30+ dollars on something that does NOTHING.

If you feel it was money well spent, then it must be. I'm sure you ran a comparative analysis on a brand new engine with a dyno run of both set ups to verify the gains, along with a revolution count to verify starting speed increases.

[Userj8670]

Come now Jon...the transdenser does do something....it blinks (sorry I had to...)

[Cougar281]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

If the idle screw is the only one you "tweaked" then you need to run that bad boy up to high idle and check the following:
*High idle engine speed
*adjust the high speed (main) fuel needle as the book specifies. Beginning from the initial adjustment, back the screw out until the engine begins to stumble, then turn it in until it begins to stumble. The book says the perfect setting is between those two points..... I say it's about 1/4 turn to the rich side of those two points. Maybe even 1/2 turn. When you are setting it this way, the engine is under no load. When the engine gets loaded, it needs more fuel than it does when not under load, and I also think that a "middle" setting leaves it a bit on the lean side. I prefer to run these air cooled Kohler motors a little on the rich side. Especially with the ethanol fuel we now have. (Not a slam on ethanol, it is a factual statement based on the fact that there is more alcohol in the fuel than there was in the 60's (none) when the manual was written. More alcohol = more fuel needed. Plain and simple)

I'll give that a shot later and see how it goes.

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Do yourself a favor and download the Kohler manual. The engine section in the IH book is a condensed version of the Kohler manual. Much more detail in the Kohler manual, and who better to write the book than the engine manufacturer.

Will do. EdiT: I must be blind. I'd assume it would be in the 'Resources' section somewhere, but separate searches for 'Kohler' and 'manual' didn't seem to turn it up.

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Well..... I'm not going to get in a pissing match about carbs VS EFI (or anything of the like) on this thread, or this site. I grow far weary of arguing with "experts" that work as *insert whatever you want* during the day, and turn wrenches on their own cars at night and think after watching a few videos they know all about it. Heck, I get tired of debating this sort of thing with other so called "techs".

For the record, there are a lot of new lawn mowers with EFI engines in them.

Your friend with the '76 F600..... Yeah... I'd do about anything to a Ford to try and make it better. They need all the help they can get. Too bad he can't find a good mechanic to fix it for him.

No pissing match intended - we all have our opinions about various things. everyone won't agree on everything.

Originally Posted by J-Mech

As far as the whole trandenser goes..... well..... like I said. Whatever makes you happy. I'm not spending $30+ dollars on something that does NOTHING.

If you feel it was money well spent, then it must be. I'm sure you ran a comparative analysis on a brand new engine with a dyno run of both set ups to verify the gains, along with a revolution count to verify starting speed increases.

I already had it and it works (and the timing light was helpful in setting the timing - didn't have to figure out where my test light was), so it is what it is.

[sir_lancealot]

Originally Posted by Cougar281

Will do. EdiT: I must be blind. I'd assume it would be in the 'Resources' section somewhere, but separate searches for 'Kohler' and 'manual' didn't seem to turn it up.

It's under the Technical Library - Tractors section.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=4646

[Cougar281]

Originally Posted by sir_lancealot

It's under the Technical Library - Tractors section.

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=4646

Thanks - very odd. If I search for 'Kohler' or 'Manual', it's nowhere to be found... You'd think either of those searches would bring it up. But it's on page 3 if I go browsing through the pages.

[cooperino]

Originally Posted by Cougar281

The example is more relevant with my friends '76 F100 - he HATES the carb in that and desperately wants to swap in a 5.4L.

No need for an engine swap just to get FI... These guys make conversion kits "mostly using stock intake" for all kinds of cars, trucks, equipment. Of course Its TBI but still.. It will give your buddy reliable starts. Until a component craps out like the TPS or computer. With a carb you can tell usually long before it wont start that theres a running issue and clean, adjust, etc. But its usually not the carb causing the initial issue.

https://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/

I do not really like them. I have installed them for customers on Tugs with 4.9 300's.
Oh. they work ok.. However, The parts are proprietary. Meaning you now need to stock some parts because if you don't you will be waiting on them to send new ones.

One of the main issues we have with airport equipment is that younger people are use to FI and you need to show them "especially on ford 4.9" that they need to pump the pedal at least once to set the choke. Once they understand that they are usually pretty trouble free and you can always get them going.