1440 PTO Clutch Question/Help Needed!

[lowes48]

Hey Guys,

I'll try to keep this short and with enough info for the gurus to offer advice (thank you so much in advance!)

Mower wouldn't start off the switch, which has been a problem before, so I thought the battery might be dead since it was 8 yrs. old! Had the battery load tested and it was still good but I replaced it anyway due to its age. Got home, installed it and still no start. Jumped across the solenoid and it did start, but the mower deck was running. Mowed as usual and turned the deck off via the PTO switch (which was replaced last year) and the deck cut off, but started back by itself! Did some research and learned about the seized bearing issue, so after tearing into the PTO clutch I did in fact have a crusty seized bearing!

A trip to O'Reilly Auto Parts fixed that with a $4.28 bearing (PT 206 which seems to be the same as the 6206 per its specs), followed by a trip to a machine shop to press the new one in for $5.00. "Alright going to fix it myself for less than $10.00!", I thought smugly to myself... The saga continues...

Went to assemble the PTO clutch today and put everything back together and it seems that when it's set to the recommended air gap of .017 it's too tight and the pulley won't freely spin; the 3-prong piece that floats on the springs seems to bind the pulley somehow. I didn't realize this was a problem until I installed it on the tractor and jumped across the solenoid again to get it going and there was no noticeable action from the PTO other than some grinding and sparks, which told me the PTO clutch wasn't happy! I got it off and it was super hot, and after disassembling it again it appeared to have gotten very hot because the field area was discolored on both sides.

Went back through it all to see if I had missed something, and I drilled one of the tabs that rides on the springs a bit larger hoping that would allow it some wiggle room, and not seize the pulley as before, but I don't think it made any difference... Went to try it again and now the tractor won't even jump across the soilenoid now; so I figured I'd leave it be for the evening and it's on the battery tender now!

So what do I need to do to get the adjustment sorted? Everything but the seized bearing worked when it was pulled off, so I hope I didn't kill the clutch with the bound pulley issue! How can I check the PTO to make sure it still functions without fully installing it on the tractor? And when the PTO switch is engaged now the audible "click" isn't nearly as loud as before, so should I be concerned about that?

I don't mind buying a new PTO clutch if needed, but I wasn't to exhaust all my resources in this one prior to buying a new one! Again, thanks to everyone in advance for your fit e and effort with my problem!

[Sam Mac]

Well it sounds like we have a party mix of problems going on with this one.

The not starting issue has nothing to do with the clutch as long as the clutch is not locked up.

Did you replace both bearings or only the one in the pulley?

The triangle shaped piece is the clutch brake. I serves two functions, 1st it stops the blades when the PTO is turned off, 2nd it is used to adjust the air gap.

The air gap needs to be adjusted to the proper setting so that the armature is at the proper distance from the rotor in order for the coil to be able to pull it into engagement. You end to adjust it evenly with a feel gauge through all 3 slots. This thread will give you a little more info.
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30

#2 driving hub (rotor)
#3 driven disc (armature)
The pulley is not supposed to spin freely, it's stopped with the power to the PTO in the off position and it's connected to the engine and rotating in the on position.

If I had to guess I think you have the air gap screwed up.

Now as far as electrical goes. You need to find out what is going on. How long have you had to jump it at the solenoid?

[lowes48]

Hey Sam,

Thanks for the info! I only replaced the pulley bearing as the backside bearing seems to be just fine. And I did initially adjust the air gap to the recommended .017 per the manual, which locked the pulley down tight, but it smoked and sparked when the PTO was engaged via the switch and didn't "lock down" the belt pulley, so there was no deck engagement.

Regarding the switch/jumping across the solenoid issue, I've only had to do it during this process; occasionally the tractor would balk when I tried to start it but I tracked that down to worn/lose battery cables/terminals, and I have since cleaned these up and don't expect them to be a problem again for a while. But it was puzzling that the last couple of times when I tried to jump across the solenoid when I touched the screwdriver to both poles I got NOTHING!

So it seems I've got potential problems with the key switch, PTO switch, solenoid and the PTO clutch. Again, I don't mind spending a bit to fix anything that needs to be repaired, but I would obviously rather fix it myself if possible to save money that doesn't need to be spent, if possible!

[Sam Mac]

Originally Posted by lowes48

Hey Sam,

Thanks for the info! I only replaced the pulley bearing as the backside bearing seems to be just fine. And I did initially adjust the air gap to the recommended .017 per the manual, which locked the pulley down tight, but it smoked and sparked when the PTO was engaged via the switch and didn't "lock down" the belt pulley, so there was no deck engagement.
Regarding the switch/jumping across the solenoid issue, I've only had to do it during this process; occasionally the tractor would balk when I tried to start it but I tracked that down to worn/lose battery cables/terminals, and I have since cleaned these up and don't expect them to be a problem again for a while. But it was puzzling that the last couple of times when I tried to jump across the solenoid when I touched the screwdriver to both poles I got NOTHING!

So it seems I've got potential problems with the key switch, PTO switch, solenoid and the PTO clutch. Again, I don't mind spending a bit to fix anything that needs to be repaired, but I would obviously rather fix it myself if possible to save money that doesn't need to be spent, if possible!

When you say "locked the pulley down tight" what exactly are you talking about? If you have the air gap adjusted to spec the pulley as I said before should be held from turning by the brake (the triangle part) that you adjust for the air gap when the PTO is turned off.

You said you put a new battery in this and now it won't turn over even jumping the solenoid. You said you got sparks and smoke and that the deck didn't engage. Did you charge the new battery or just put it and figured it must be good to go cause it's new? For what ever it's worth I picked 2 brand new battery's the other day straight off the interstate battery truck, they needed to be charged before I put them in. That said if the PTO was reassembled and properly adjusted then you have an electrical issue. Not enough voltage will cause problems for PTO's. Take a few minutes and look at the video's on this site. http://xtremeope.com/faq/

[lowes48]

The pulley seems to be rubbing against the 3 sided plate that goes over the 3 bolts and rides on the springs. With this loose I can spin the pulley and it rubs. After the assembly is positioned at the correct air gap the pulley is tight a scan be, which makes me think there is contact between the 2 parts that shouldn't be.

And yes, I just installed the battery straight off the rack, so it's getting a trickle charge from the battery tender now.

[Sam Mac]

Did you adjust the air gap at all 3 slots and then go back over it a couple times?

[lowes48]

^yes sir, I sure did!

[lowes48]

UPDATE - after receiving my new xtremeope clutch (awesome customer service, 2 day shipping and a great product - what's not to love about this?) I installed it on Saturday. Still nothing from the key switch, so I jumped across the solenoid again and nothing…

When I cleaned my battery cables I had to trim the negative wire to expose clean wire, which caused me to have to relocate it. I unbolted the relocated wire and used an angle grinder to remove the paint from the surrounding area, and what do you know? I was able to jump across the solenoid again!

The tractor started right up and ran for about 10 seconds then died… Tried this several times thinking the fuel pump had lost prime, but since I was still not getting anything from the key switch I called a local repairman/friend to ask what he thought about it and he pointed me in the direction of the key switch (no switch, no juice to the other electrical components…). Sure enough after pulling the key switch connection and spraying some cleaner in it I’m getting contact now!

The simple stuff ALWAYS gets me! But with the help from the forum (Sam Mac in particular) and others the ol' girl lives on to mow another day! Thanks again for all the help, Sam!

[Sam Mac]

Glad you got it going. How about some pics of the new clutch and a report on it. May be of help to other members with clutch issues.