Grader Build Planning

KMCub · #1 09-11-2024, 02:51 PM

I am starting a grader build and will preferably keep the engine in the proper orientation under the hood which means it will be spinning opposite of the standard rotation. I am considering some sort of parallel gearbox or belt setup. I don't have an super tight budget mainly I want to do it right. Does anyone have any war stories to share in regards to this? Thank you.

DeltaCub · #2 09-11-2024, 03:29 PM

A few years back another built a grader. Here is the link.

https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ad.php?t=56461

ironman · #3 09-11-2024, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaCub

A few years back another built a grader. Here is the link.

https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ad.php?t=56461

He has it all on YouTube, here's link....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl26X0A6YcA

KMCub · #4 09-12-2024, 09:50 AM

Thanks for the help, I have seen both of those. Unfortunately they both have the motor spun 180deg in the engine bay. I am using a 1250 which has side panels and the exhaust comes out the front (which will be the new rear), I have considered rotating the engine in the bay and running a new exhaust pipe to the back but the problem is the hot air from the engine fan will need to go down past the hydros in that configuration because of the side panels. This is one of those projects where appearance is as important as function so I guess I need to put my engineering hat on. Thanks again for the help!

KMCub · #5 09-13-2024, 04:50 PM

So I am running into a slight issue with my design. Because I am using a 1250 for the engine bay it is almost impossible to rotate the engine in the bay to have the correct rotation for the hydros that will be sitting underneath the engine. I ran the hydro in reverse operation with a drill to check if it would work and it did. Of course reverse is now fast and forward is now slow, is it as simple as taking the swashplate out and flipping it to make forward the faster speed? Does anyone have any experience running the input in reverse rotation? I know the pickup now is in a different location and oil starvation could be an issue, are there any other concerns?

ol'George · #6 09-13-2024, 05:27 PM

FWIW:
If you didn't know, those old Sundstrand Hydro's were used in a boat load of Mobile vehicles, way to many to list.
That said, some needed the input shaft rotation changed because of driving off engines that used the PTO end of the crankshaft unlike Cub that used the Flywheel end of the crankshaft.
To change the input rotation, just turn the charge pump 1/2 turn and bolt it back on.
Yes it is as easy as that.
If one tries to drive the input shaft reverse of what cub's rotation is, it will not
operate, unless the charge pump if flipped or turned.
in other words,
the notch on the one ear of the charge pump mounting bolt flange, needs to be on the other side.
Clear as mud?

Now that said,
it is not advisable to run cub differentials reverse of what they were built for,
as the ring and pinion, being driven in reverse direction, tends to stress the snap ring on the differential pinion shaft small end,
as the pinion is now being pulled into the ring gear instead of being pushed away with the thrust no longer being on the tapered pinion bearing.
Best to use the hydro's and differentials as designed as far as rotation, unless you are only using the hydro's and some other differential setup.
Hope I've not confused you more.

ironman · #7 09-13-2024, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol'George

Now that said,
it is not advisable to run cub differentials reverse of what they were built for,
as the ring and pinion, being driven in reverse direction, tends to stress the snap ring on the differential pinion shaft small end,
as the pinion is now being pulled into the ring gear instead of being pushed away with the thrust no longer being on the tapered pinion bearing.
Best to use the hydro's and differentials as designed as far as rotation, unless you are only using the hydro's and some other differential setup.
Hope I've not confused you more.

Adding to what ol'George said,
here's a link to the "flip ring" question on another forum.
Maybe it'll help ya or just make it more muddy....
https://www.redpowermagazine.com/for...ing-ring-gear/

KMCub · #8 09-14-2024, 02:13 PM

Thank you both! I had a 125 as a kid used it to mow then entered it in our town's inaugural garden tractor pull in 1990 and won. I was impressed then as to how over-built the tractors are and now even more impressed with the strength and versatility of the parts. All I need is to reverse the input rotation to accommodate the engine being rotated 180 deg, the drivetrain will all be rotating in the same direction as stock. I have been scratching my head for a week trying to find some sort of 1:1 reversing gearbox or running a pully on the backside of a belt to make it all work, I should have known they had some insanely simple solution!!!! Thanks again!!!!!!!

KMCub · #9 09-14-2024, 03:01 PM

So I went out into the shop. Took the two bolts out of the charge pump, rotated it 180 deg and it still runs in the same direction. CCW input, push back on the hydro lever, wheels drive forward. I think I am clear on the charge pump, it is the forward input shaft with two bolts, one ear has a flat side the other has a rounded side. Just remove the two bolts, spin the cover 180 and rebolt?

Ambush · #10 09-14-2024, 04:45 PM

If you change the input rotation, then you have to change the pump lens plate. That's the round flat bronze on one side plate that the barrel face rides on. They are rotation specific. CW or CCW. It will work at very low rpm but at operating rpm it will be noisy then self destruct.

Why do you want to run it backwards?