Limbs can break

Gaden · #1 05-28-2016, 11:28 AM

"Ok, here's the "deal". Sam Mac designed and made the first set of braces. He was the one who saw the issue, and designed a "fix". It really shouldn't be that hard to see what the deal is. The braces are for sale now through xtreme, but it seems that a lot of people think that they can do it themselves for less than the selling price, yet they seem to need to know how to make them first. If you want to make your own parts, then make them. I don't think it's fair to ask the designer to give you the specs for their product for free. No, the OP didn't ask Sam directly to hand them over.... he just asked someone else who either paid for them, or copied Sam's design, to hand them over. It's all the same thing. Before Sam designed them, I never say ANYONE put a brace on the rear of an SGT. So, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that all SGT braces are copied from Sam's. It's no different than asking a manufacturer to tell you how to build their product so you don't have to pay for it.

Sorry this is kind of a hot topic for me (even though I have no skin in the game), but I have built a lot of things, and being in business for myself for many years, it always irritated me when someone wanted me to share my information for free because they didn't want to pay me for the work. I do it here because I want to, and for the most part, people here are just playing with a "toy", and share the same "hobby" as I do. I have declined information to people when I found out they were just trying to fix a Cub to flip it. That's where I personally draw the line. "

When I first got my tractor home and was giving it a good look over as one does with any new toy, I noticed there was only two (per side) bolts holding the rear to the frame and that this connection was a good 6 inches above the center of the axle, which just looked very weak to me and immediately formed in my head how I would build a plate to extend the frame so as to catch all of the bolts in the carrier. I was a sheet metal worker for 34 years, and as a foreman and superintendent, it was exactly the kind of thing I was used to doing. Had I known at that time that this really was a problem, I would have made the plates and had them on way before I was a member here. But due to procrastination and telling myself that the tractor was 22 years old and had no issues, I never followed through. Fast forward three years, and after two days of using it to push dirt, I discovered I had broken all four of the suspect bolts. After dissassembly, I took my measurements, made a detail of the parts (almost exactly as I had envisioned three years before) and went to a shop I used to work at where they burned out my plates on their laser cutter. ($48) In a thread I started (Well, it happened to me) to ask about the tapered bearings in the differential, I said pretty much the same thing;

"As a matter of fact, when I first got this tractor, I questioned how good an idea it was to have only four bolts (yeah, I know, there's another bracket on the hydro) and thought I would make up a plate that utilizes all of the bolts in the carrier, guess I should have at that point."
So, It's not something I just now made up.
Now we have a guy who didn't want to buy pre-made braces because they wouldn't work for his particular application and simply wanted the bolt pattern, which I was happy to supply. After all it was my concept and my design, I should be able to do what I want with it.

gt383mag · #2 05-28-2016, 12:18 PM

did i miss something again? when i made mine i didnt like xtremes price but i also didnt ask for measurements either. did em my way because i tied my loader subframe into them so i guess xtremes wouldnt have worked for me anyways. Sams ideas are great. he also made those adaptors that go between the cyclops hydro valves i would have bought more of them from him but got the last 2 he had. price was great now i have no choice but to copy them and make my own because they are not easy to find. trust me Sams price for them was good i own my own lathe and i do not like making them.i could be wrong but Sam or Oak gave me the drawings for the kubota cv joint adaptor that was alsoa great help... many thanks to all the people who have helped me out

CubDieselFan · #3 05-28-2016, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaden

"Ok, here's the "deal". Sam Mac designed and made the first set of braces. He was the one who saw the issue, and designed a "fix". It really shouldn't be that hard to see what the deal is. The braces are for sale now through xtreme, but it seems that a lot of people think that they can do it themselves for less than the selling price, yet they seem to need to know how to make them first. If you want to make your own parts, then make them. I don't think it's fair to ask the designer to give you the specs for their product for free. No, the OP didn't ask Sam directly to hand them over.... he just asked someone else who either paid for them, or copied Sam's design, to hand them over. It's all the same thing. Before Sam designed them, I never say ANYONE put a brace on the rear of an SGT. So, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that all SGT braces are copied from Sam's. It's no different than asking a manufacturer to tell you how to build their product so you don't have to pay for it.

Sorry this is kind of a hot topic for me (even though I have no skin in the game), but I have built a lot of things, and being in business for myself for many years, it always irritated me when someone wanted me to share my information for free because they didn't want to pay me for the work. I do it here because I want to, and for the most part, people here are just playing with a "toy", and share the same "hobby" as I do. I have declined information to people when I found out they were just trying to fix a Cub to flip it. That's where I personally draw the line. "

When I first got my tractor home and was giving it a good look over as one does with any new toy, I noticed there was only two (per side) bolts holding the rear to the frame and that this connection was a good 6 inches above the center of the axle, which just looked very weak to me and immediately formed in my head how I would build a plate to extend the frame so as to catch all of the bolts in the carrier. I was a sheet metal worker for 34 years, and as a foreman and superintendent, it was exactly the kind of thing I was used to doing. Had I known at that time that this really was a problem, I would have made the plates and had them on way before I was a member here. But due to procrastination and telling myself that the tractor was 22 years old and had no issues, I never followed through. Fast forward three years, and after two days of using it to push dirt, I discovered I had broken all four of the suspect bolts. After dissassembly, I took my measurements, made a detail of the parts (almost exactly as I had envisioned three years before) and went to a shop I used to work at where they burned out my plates on their laser cutter. ($48) In a thread I started (Well, it happened to me) to ask about the tapered bearings in the differential, I said pretty much the same thing;

"As a matter of fact, when I first got this tractor, I questioned how good an idea it was to have only four bolts (yeah, I know, there's another bracket on the hydro) and thought I would make up a plate that utilizes all of the bolts in the carrier, guess I should have at that point."
So, It's not something I just now made up.
Now we have a guy who didn't want to buy pre-made braces because they wouldn't work for his particular application and simply wanted the bolt pattern, which I was happy to supply. After all it was my concept and my design, I should be able to do what I want with it.

Why bring this back up? The other thread was closed for reason. You may not agree or disagree, but let it go. All you did was copy and paste most of your post from the other thread. This one needs to be closed as well. This is a forum to help each other on our hobby. Rant over.

Sam Mac · #4 05-28-2016, 05:16 PM

Guys, here's the deal from my perspective. I designed the braces to reinforce the aluminum rears that are prone to breaking due to the torsional stress imposed on them from the longer frames on the Supers. Before the brace kit the hot setup was to swap the guts from the aluminum rear into a cast iron case. This required a total disassembly of both rears then you had to setup the ring and pinion. Not a big deal if you know what your doing with gears but a lot of time and money. Other option was to replace the front adapter housing. You still had to setup the ring and pinion. BTDT too many times. I went through 3 or 4 proto type designs before I got it to the point that I was happy with. The sets that I produced were made locally here in Galax. I had a welder that had a CNC plasma cutter burn the braces, then I had to pick them up and take them to a machine shop to be drilled. Buy the bolts, package them up and ship them. By the time it was all said and done I was making about $5.00 a set. It was more aggravation than it was worth. I sold the design to Xtreme who burns them on a CNC laser machine, the quality is superb and for the average guy they are a simple bolt on. I have nothing to gain if you buy them or not, I don't get 1 cent on any of the sales. Same deal with the Cyclops valve adapters. Had a bunch of guys tell me they wanted them so I had the machine shop run off a bunch then the guys that wanted them disappeared and I sat on them for about a year. The CV drive shaft conversion was pretty much the same story, Oh Yeah I want a set, I put out my cash and then sit on it. I'm all done making stuff to save you guys $$$$ and then get screwed over. I know how to fix my stuff and honestly I could care less if your stuff runs or not. That said feel free to make your own stuff. My guess is some of you guys are the first ones to Bit-h about your job going to China or Mexico because they copied the design of what you used to make and sell it here for less. Americans only care about cheap until it bites them in the A$$.

Xtreme sells my brace design for both the SGT's and the GT's (the GT's bust rear ends also)

JeffinPa sells my drive shaft parts

The Cyclops valve adapters as far as I know are still available from Cub at Cub prices.

Rant over have a wonderful day guys.

Mike McKown · #5 05-28-2016, 07:56 PM

FWIW , good friend of mine designed and built a set of braces for his Super CC several years before the braces in question here. That was after he had taken his tractor back to the dealer several times to repair broken bolts.

The braces Sam designed were almost a carbon copy of my friends braces that Sam had never seen before. The difference being they were made of I think, 1/8" aluminum instead of steel. They didn't last long before they broke.

Having purchased a set of Sam's braces, I can tell you they work.

Unless you're just a cheapskate and don't want to spend the one time money to fix a problem that keeps coming back, I think it foolish to take the time/trouble to make your own just to save a few bucks. Nobody is more frugal than I and I consider it money well spent.