Rear PTO, What Tractor?
 

Ok I got a Rear with a PTO for one of my cubs but I can't decide what cub to put it in. All of my cubs are loaded except for one (102)(see sig) what one do you think it should go in? I know the 127 out because its a hydro that leaves the 122, 102, and 72. My thoughts are the 102 since it doesn't have the hydro lift and 3 point. Anyways here are the pics of the rear I just got.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...psecu3znjn.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...pstqr1gaqr.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...pseqt1cqek.jpg

Since you cant decide how about my 122:biggrin2::beerchug:

Looks like it was originally in a 106/126,i would put it in the 122.
nice find.

another vote for the 122

I was told it came from a 108, Regardless I'm stoked to finally have a rear PTO. I also put a offer on another 122 with a pto if it gets accepted I'll have two :D :D:biggrin2:

I say 122 also.

I understand your dilemma, if I had a PTO rear end, I wouldn't know what to put it in either.

Since they don't really do anything, do you put it in a tractor that you use regularly or something that sets around most of the time?

If it were mine and I intended to use the whole trans-axle, I would want to put it in something that corresponds with the serial number, just to keep everything original.

If I were going to use just the parts, then I would put it in whatever I wanted.

Either way, a rear PTO would be a cool thing to have.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Why does everyone always that? Just because IH or CC didn't make any attachments doesn't mean they aren't usable. I've seen guys run bale hikers/elevators, augers, hammer mills or corn shellers. You can even put the belt pulley drive on and run belt pulley equipment with them. Or, you can build your own attachments like sickle mowers, or a rotary ditchter..... The list could go on and on! They can be very useful! :bigeyes:

I would put it in the 122.

Like Jon said, make some attachments. If I had a rear pto, I would look for a woods rm48 mower and make it a pull behind mower. If you turn the driveshaft around so the back is the front, add some trailing wheels to the now back of the deck the existing casters will be in the front. Add a tongue and go.

Turning the deck around should match the deck pto direction to the cub pto direction...unless I got myself turned around trying to figure it out. :bigthink:

Bill

I think it would be a little more difficult than than.... You'd have to switch the input shaft around.... :bigthink:

Right, but the input shaft and pulley are mounted on a pedestal. I am assuming, possibly incorrectly, that the whole pedestal could be turned around.

Either way, off topic enough for me. Apologies to the OP

Bill

Its no problem, I will be using the guts from the rear to keep my serial numbers correct. I know its stupid but its the little things like that; that get my goat...

I don't think it's stupid at all, in this case, keeping it factory makes sense.

I was at a tractor show a few years back and they had one turning a ice cream maker.

were the old narrow frame PTOs 1" 15 spline 2000 RPM as well as the newer wide frames? There are new attachments out there for that out there if you look hard enough.

Yes, that is correct.


No. The gear drive PTO's were 10 spline 540 RPM reverse rotation.

The newer (hydro tractor) PTO's were the 1" 15 spline (female) 2K RPM. They were also reverse rotation. The problem is the reverse rotation, and the female spline. If you know of any "newer" PTO equipment that is 2K reverse rot, and male splined, I'd sure like to know about it. I'm pretty sure that they haven't made anything for that PTO in years. What little they built are impossible to find. Come on Andy..... you already own two of the "hard to find" items.....:bigeyes:

we'll talk about it tomorrow. I gotta go to bed. 100% I can find you a brand new tiller. The mower is iffy.

I'll be waiting!

:popcorn::popcorn:

You wanna take this to the "implement section"?

I'm fine with it, I'm learning alot from the chit chat! Keep it going! It only helps the thread. The rear PTO is such a rare thing and any help with its use is greatly appreciated. I'd love to know what Implements were made by IH to run of of it.

For the 540 PTO: None
For the 2K PTO: A tiller, and a bush hog

What the "crap" Jonathan, I said the same thing the other day (only using different words) and you jumped my a$$ about it. Make up your mind and stop being such a jackass, you can't have it both ways!

I think the key was "IH" made.
I'm sure mine will get used with belt drive stuff, I have some things I run off my IHC engines that would be cool to run off of it, like a old water pump.

now to add another question. The manual 1x2-3 pg.2-3 states the REAR PTO speed is the same as engine speed. So who is right is it 540 or direct drive?

Just about any PTO on any tractor is throttle dependent, it might be 540 at full throttle but will turn slower as you decrease the throttle.

How I read the manual its direct drive, ie if the engine is at 3600rpms so is the pto

I have no experience with the rear PTO on a cub but it would be pretty worthless if it ran at engine speed, it would almost have to have some kind of gear reduction so that the PTO could have the power to run implements. Take a tiller for example, there's no way a 12hp engine has enough power to run a tiller at 3600rpm in the ground, as soon as it touched the ground it would stall out or brake something.

I'm not sure about the RPM but I know it's not full engine RPM because it runs off the main shaft in the trans and that turns at a reduced speed because it is driven by the reduction gear.

Edit: Did a little research, the input gear according to Mid West Super Cub has 12 teeth and the reduction gear according to Parts Tree has 84 teeth so 84 divided by 12 is 7. Engine RPM of 3600 divided by 7 would give you 514 RPM's at the rear PTO.

According to the 71, 102, 122, 123 Operators manual that I have (1 082 592 R3 8-4-67-14B.)

Power take-off shaft governed speed........... 515 r.p.m.

I have no idea how we get from 540 to 515 but Sams math looks to right on target.

I'm not being contradictory, and I didn't jump your a$$.
Your statement was: I said that that wasn't true. They aren't "useless".
This second question was did IH build any attachments for them..... the answer is NO. Not specifically for the rear PTO on a CC. But.... there are several things that they can run. I'm not really sure how your were confused (offended) by my responses....... :Huh:


The rear PTO is (basically) a 540 RPM. Ok, ok.... technically they run 515 RPM at WOT. I looked at the page in the book you are referring to. In the book, the specs for the front PTO are listed right above the specs for the rear. I'd say it was a misprint and that the listed speed of "engine speed" was meant to go under the specs for the front PTO. This should be a no brainer as, like Sam said, they run off the topshaft in the trans which is driven through the reduction gear. Simple math tells you they can't turn engine speed. :bash2:

I didn't say they are "useless" so please refrain from trying to put words in my mouth.

I said "they don't really do anything" with the intended meaning that there were never any attachments/implements made for them.

I apologize for not wording my statement to your exacting standards.

I apologize for putting words in your mouth, and also misinterpreting what you said. :beerchug:

I think we're on the same page.... just a mis-communication.

sorry I should have dug deeper then just glance at the spec page. Thats what you guys are here for, to set me straight...

Just a FYI Hub City still makes a reverser only problem is that it has male keyed shafts for both input and output. Except for the SO style, that evidently has one female shaft. Maybe they will build it with 2 female shafts then you could use some type of adapter to go to PTO style shafting.

http://www.hubcityinc.com/documents/...haftDrives.pdf

Take a look at page F-10

They have others. Here is one that I acquired from back in my dealership days. It's off of a side arm ditch mower. It was used to drive the main hydraulic pump for the mower. Ratio is almost exact for being driven off of a direct input from the motor. So, it can be used on a hydro GT (driven off of the hydro output shaft) or other applications like on a Cub Lo-Boy. That's what I'm saving it for. To convert my fast running, reverse direction Lo-Boy to a usable speed and direction. Just like the ones Sam pointed out, the problem is adapting to the input. I already have the LB figured out..... just waiting for "life" to throw me a bone. Economy is killing me here and $$ are tight.

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Jumper those pictures are awesome. Looks like some sort of a mini scraper. Can you elaborate on that? Uses a NF hydraulic lift pump driven by the driveshaft? Also, what's the deal with that tractors axles? Looks like some sort of full floater hub unless my eyes are deceiving me? Sorry to go off topic abut but those are some nice machines

Alvy those units were made by Dan Hoefler. He has a 100 crawler, a high crop 100 and a MFWA 100. He has write ups on one of the other cub forums. The rear axle you are referring to, is on the back of the MFWA 100. Yes it has full floating axles in it. I think he did that to get some ratios correct on the front assist. He is a fantastic machinist. I have seen all the units in person at a RPRU.